Director Gets Honest About Millennial Pressures – Her Top 4 Dating Tips

Show Notes

This week, I had the pleasure of chatting with Lisa Anderson, director of young adults at Focus on the Family. As a fellow millennial, Lisa offers so much wisdom for navigating faith, relationships, and work in today’s world. In our conversation, Lisa tackles big assumptions about millennials – we get into the unique pressures and expectations our generation faces. But Lisa also highlights our strengths: our versatility, willingness to work hard, and ability to pivot. We also dive into some practical dating advice. Lisa stresses the importance of community and wise counsel when looking for a spouse. She offers her top 4 must-haves in a future partner. I love her bullseye analogy here. Lisa doesn’t shy away from how hard it can be for single millennials to plug into church either. But she still emphasizes the non-negotiable nature of getting involved locally. We have to own our faith and our adulthood. Dealing with conflicting worldviews at work is another key topic Lisa weighs in on. Standing firm in your convictions versus going along to get along – it’s tricky waters to navigate. Lisa offers some excellent perspectives here. I think you guys will really appreciate Lisa’s insights and the back-and-forth conversation. Let me know your biggest takeaways in the comments! And be sure to check out Lisa’s book The Dating Manifesto.

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Lisa’s Links:

Website: https://www.focusonthefamily.com/
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/focusonthefamily/
Show: https://www.focusonthefamily.com/shows/broadcast/
X: https://x.com/FocusFamily
Book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/143470887X?ref_=cm_sw_r_cp_ud_dp_N8DJCTNHKG3JFJ57X5AF

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#ChurchLife
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TIMESTAMPS:

00:00:00 – Support Group for Parents of Gender Confused Children

00:01:18 – Focus on Young Adults Ministry

00:03:19 – Misconceptions About Millennials

00:07:32 – Stereotypes and Generational Challenges

00:11:39 – Importance of Local Church Involvement

00:13:59 – Building Relationships in the Church

00:15:06 – Importance of Local Church

00:16:22 – Active Participation in Church

00:17:02 – Navigating Singleness and Dating

00:25:22 – Importance of Support System

00:27:19 – Standing for Truth at Work

00:28:22 – Leading by Example

00:31:26 – Navigating Divisive Issues at Work

00:33:52 – Courage and Respect

00:35:42 – Staying Connected with Boundless

TRANSCRIPT:

00:00:09 – Johnny Sanders
Do you have a child that is gender confused? Are you the parent of somebody who is either identified as transgender, using different pronouns, or some other type of gender confusion, just propaganda being shoved down your kids’ throats? Well, I created the biblically parenting gender-confused children support group for parents just like you. This support group is completely free. We meet monthly, and you are able to connect with other like-minded Christian parents who are struggling with how to parent children who are gender confused. They are getting all sorts of nonsense brought to them by the world, and I want to help connect parents who are going through similar struggles and be able to tackle this issue through a biblical worldview. If you are interested in joining this group or know somebody who might be interested in this group, head on over to faithfullyengaged.com. and there’s more information about this support group there. I have a link down in the description below.

00:01:14 – Johnny Sanders
Well, welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. I’m really excited today for our guest. Her name is Lisa Anderson. She’s a director of young adults, um, for focus on the family. I know many of you are probably aware of a focus on the family and all the great work that they do. And, um, she manages the, the boundless focus ministry there, uh, for young adults, which really fits really well into kind of the focus of, of the podcast here. So, Lisa, it’s great to have you on. Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit more about yourself?

00:01:49 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah, thanks so much, Johnny. It’s, uh, yeah, boundless is a lot of people who are familiar with focus on the family will say, well, boundless young adults and many in my audience are single. And they’re like, well, what does that have to do with focus on the family? And so I always say, well, you know, we’re growing up a generation of young adults, and hopefully allowing them to own their faith, date with purpose, kind of take on all the markers of maturity. And so in order to do that, whether or not marriage and family is in their future. And so I consider us kind of a discipleship ministry, really, for college through 30 somethings, pretty much that young professional is my sweet spot and just kind of helping them an arm around their shoulder for what is going on in my life, in the culture, in my relationships. And so I’m actually myself, single, never married. And so I’m kind of that what I’m hoping now. When I started hosting the show, the boundless show, I actually was a young adult, believe it or not. So now I’m trying to be that fun older aunt to kind of, like, help him along, of being a few steps ahead. And so we have a great conversation and a great community in the process.

00:03:04 – Johnny Sanders
You know, a lot of what you said there kind of reminds me of making this show that kind of focusing more on conservative Christians who are, who are millennial-aged. And part of the reason why I did that is because I’m a conservative Christian who’s a millennial. So, I mean, I, I’m kind of living in that. So you, you kind of had some similarities in starting that and kind of the focus on that millennial type of age, upper twenties, thirties, that, that type of timeframe. I’m smack dab in the middle of that. I’m kind of well aware of a lot of the generational things, but I know there are a lot of misconceptions about millennials that get thrown around all the time. Oh, you’re just a millennial or whatever. So what are some of these misconceptions that millennial Christians face?

00:03:56 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah, I think there are a ton. And I think it’s funny because I say on the boundless show that I’m an equal opportunity offender, Johnny, and that I, a lot of times, generations, they want to pit themselves against one another. And I say there is a fair amount, I think, that’s going on with millennials and the struggles that millennials face that we can, or I do, at least, because I’m an X Er. So I’m, like, in the mid to the end of the x generation, but I have a high affinity for millennials. And so I always say, you know, there’s a lot that I would love to blame on boomers, quite frankly. You know, if we think of, like, the parents of millennials and some, some parents of millennials, the younger ones, or maybe even Xers, but that whole idea of the perceptions that millennials are super entitled, they’re, you know, everyone gets a trophy. The boomer parents were helicoptering them and didn’t let them spread their wings or figure out what that was about. I will say, you know, and I manage millennials. I work with millennials every day, including now Gen Z. And I would say I think that there’s a little bit of truth, maybe. I mean, some of those elements of entitlement and being, you know, being given a lot show up in the millennial generation. But I also think that with that has come a lot of expectations. And so I see millennials, your generation, as being expected to succeed, being expected to take on a college degree, probably a graduate degree to succeed in the workplace. As a result, we’re seeing a lot of millennials who are working a job and trying to get a job in their field of study, but they’re probably also gigging on the side because they have amassed enormous school debt. They can’t pay it off. In many cases, they’re underemployed and really struggling, maybe with that student loan debt, shouldering that. In fact, one of my millennial employees was talking about, he’s married with two small kids, and he’s like, we’re just priced out of the housing market, Lisa. My parents just assume that we’re supposed to have this white picket fence existence that they have, and it’s just not attainable for us in the economy that we’re in and the culture that we’re in. I feel that, and I know that there are a lot of challenges out there. Like, I would say, as an example, one thing I love about millennials, is because I’ll have millennial interns. Of course, now I have many more Gen Z interns, but my millennial interns are the ones who would show up having already completed two other internships. I mean, they’re just like go-getters. You guys really are, which is why you’ve earned the moniker of the burnout generation. And so a lot of challenge there of just feeling like you’ve got to keep it going. You’ve got to burn the candle at both ends. You’ve got to get ahead. You’ve got to maintain and fill, and fulfill expectations. So I know that there’s a lot of. A lot of trouble in River City when it comes to that.

00:07:04 – Johnny Sanders
You know, when you were talking through that, it reminded me of this quote. It was from some TED talk. I don’t even remember who. Who it was or what it was about. But there’s a really good quote in there that says that the issue with stereotypes is not because they are inherently false. It’s because they’re limiting. So is there truth that there are millennials that could be lazy or demanding or whatever? Like, sure, that there’s. That’s definitely there. But if that’s limiting, that any and all millennials, you see one, like, well, they’re just lazy. Well, I mean, that we don’t have enough information just to just assume that. And, too, I would argue, as a Christian, even if that’s true, it’s not particularly helpful to have that mindset. You’re not really helping them kind of improve themselves just by kind of looking downtrodden on any and all millennials out there.

00:08:02 – Lisa Anderson
Exactly. Well, and you think of, even in relating generation to generation, you could look the other direction, too, and say, well, there are a lot of boomer challenges, too. And even in millennials working with boomers or Xers in different constructs, I say I’ll often get older employees here at focus on the family, lament younger employees and be like, oh, well, they’re just not showing up right at 08:00 a.m. and they don’t have their pens poised and just ready to go, or they want to go work in a coffee shop. And I always defend you guys by saying, hey, my millennial employees are the ones that I can tell text at 11:00 p.m. about something, and they’re going to respond, you know, they’re not the clock watchers and the, you know, eight to fivers that a lot of the older generations are. And so I think there’s versatility in the ability for millennials to be nimble. That really is going to work to your advantage ultimately.

00:09:02 – Johnny Sanders
So let’s talk about a little bit about just millennials in, just in church kind of the church environment in general. I know as our culture, kind of the macro culture, there’s more of the rise of non-affiliating. So you’ve got atheists or agnostics or whatever, and millennials are really kind of at. At the crux of that. So for the millennial Christian, at times, that can be a little overwhelming. How do I even go to church? Do I go to church by myself? What’s kind of your advice for that, especially a single millennial who just doesn’t really know how to navigate their way, even in a church environment?

00:09:45 – Lisa Anderson
Sure. Well, the first thing I’ll say, and I’ll just say this to get out of the way, and then I’ll try to explain it a little bit, is millennials get into a church? Okay, so it’s tricky. I know it’s hard. Churches are largely programmed for marriages and for families. And, of course, millennials, we have got the majority of the millennial generation that is probably still single. In fact, Gen Z, 30% will still be single at the age of 40 at this point. So marriage is being delayed. But there is no substitute for the local church when it comes to spiritual growth when it comes to accountability, when it comes to building community. In fact, I will say that even as a person who runs a ministry for young adults, that, you know, we have a lot of millennials who come to us, and they’re like, oh, Lisa, I’m so glad I have boundless, because, you know, you guys are kind of like my church. You’re my tribe. You’re my people. You know, this is where I can feel heard. I feel seen, and I’m like, I am so grateful for that, and please stay around. And we want to give you advice. We want to be a community, a sounding board, all of that. But you have got to get into a local church where people are up in your business and they have eyes on you and you are growing alongside them. You are serving, you are giving. It’s so important. So that said, you gotta make it happen. You can’t give up on the local church. Okay, now, now that I said that, I feel better about that. To do that, you have to be a person who’s coming in as a contributor, and you are going to. You know, I say this when I lead a small group of largely young adult women, and I say, you may need to show up this week because you need something from the lesson, and there might be something that God has to say to you. You may also need to show up this week because someone else needs to be encouraged by your presence here. And that’s very important. And I think millennials need to take ownership of, you know when I say young adult, it still means adult. And so. And my. The converse of this when I talk to older generations in the church is you need to start looking at your millennials and Gen Z and the contributions that they can make and the leadership that they can take within the church because you all have a perspective that’s important. And I’ll say to a millennial or whomever, if you’re a CPA and you’re not serving on your church’s finance committee, what are you even doing? Get your giftedness and your talents out there and stop sitting in the back row with your double-walled coffee mug, taking in the show or whatever’s going on, because you were needed in your church. And the best way to be thought of as an adult, which is even more of a challenge if you’re a young adult and you’re still single, then everyone just thinks. I think of in terms of this, my own sister, who I was probably in my early thirties, and a group of friends and I were going to do a Habitat for Humanity project, and my sister said, oh, it’s so great that you’re hanging out with your youth group. And I’m like, Sarah, this is not a youth group. We’re actual adults who are serving God in a context. So misperceptions abound. But go in, figure out where you can plug in, first of all, for your own growth, and secondly, for the benefit of the church and the body of Christ. And you’ve just got to own it. And you might need to be on the social front, too. This is where it applies. You might be that person that has to lead in being an inviter as well. So, you know, I know a lot of, especially single young adults, they feel, like, weird, like, you know, okay, I’m here. There’s all these families. They’re just jumping in their minivans after the service. What do I do? And I’m like, you might need to just find, you know, a young married person or whatever and just kind of get to know them, invite them over, be the person who’s going to initiate. Maybe if it’s a, you know, I say this to young women, if it’s a young mom, you might have to go to her house because she’s got these kids and she can’t get a sitter or whatever. Just go over there and fold laundry with her, for crying out loud, and start out a conversation. And then where else you can super win is go after a relationship with the empty nesters in your church because now their kids are out of their house, they’ve got some free time. They’ve probably got awesome homes. They’ll have you over, you know, again, it’s building those relationships and just kind of being like, you got to be willing to show up and contribute respectfully, you know, again, even when it comes to addressing church leadership, I say, you know, have conversations with your pastoral staff and with the other church leadership and be willing to offer your perspective without saying, you know, well, what we need to do is figure out, you know, how to get all these boomers out of here. You know, that’s not probably going to be helpful. Most of your boomers and Xers are going to be in leadership, so. But there’s a, there’s a respectful, kind, but also very contributing way to do that. And so those are my first recommendations.

00:14:54 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, well, and I love that you started off with just the non-negotiable. Like, you have to be in a church. I’ve heard from various people just like you. I’m thinking off, offhand, like, I listened to something on grace to you with, with John MacArthur that was saying something of like, that. I, if you’re not at my church, like, you can’t call this my church. Like, it’s great to get all sorts of communities, but whether it be in a podcast or listening to other sermons or whatever, that’s great. I love doing that, too. It can’t beat the local church. So I’m really glad that you emphasize that. I would say, especially in a post-Covid world where for many, sadly, Christians in person, attendance is just kind of an optional thing. It’s not like he. It’s just a mandatory thing. Um, so you have to do it. Um, but I love that you mentioned that. All right, we get you in the door, get you in a good, good church. Like, do something. Don’t just be in the back row. Um, don’t wait for the people to come up and talk to you. Be active, um, and especially if you’re, you’re single, because it is a little more difficult. Um, I’m married. I’ve got my wife and kids to kind of wrangle around. Like, I don’t really have to worry who’s going to sit by me. That’s kind of, kind of set in when you’re, when you’re single, you think about it in a different way, but you can’t be passive. You got to be active there kind of on this wavelength. Of single dating, things like that. Obviously, that’s a big issue for many millennials and younger and older Christians out there. I have many friends myself that are kind of in this, in this phase of life. I want to get married. I don’t know where to find them. Not expecting you to solve everybody’s dating issues, but what’s kind of your, advice for somebody who’s really looking to date? They really want to get married, but it’s just not working out. What’s kind of your general advice for them?

00:17:01 – Lisa Anderson
Sure. And it’s funny, you know because I feel like I’ve shared this so many times throughout life out of, born out of my own frustration, because I never felt called to singleness. I thought I would be married. I had probably a lot of wrong perspectives on it. And so in talking through this so many times, finally, my friends were like, Lisa, you got to put this down on paper. To be told in my twenties about dating, the path to marriage, and even navigating singleness. But I got a very, you know, I grew up in the California public schools. I definitely got a script there from even my teachers of, like, girls. No one’s going to take care of you. So you go out, you get your education, you start working, you become successful, and then in the future, if you want to tack on some marriage, you know, on your terms, then. Go ahead. Well, meanwhile, Johnny, I got crickets from the church, and so I felt like I. And it wasn’t. I mean, I was, I was solid. It wasn’t like I was just off the rails, like, oh, I’m just going to go and cohabit and just find all these loser guys. But I would say one of the biggest challenges, and I wish that. I wish that we could turn in our bibles to first and second dating and just get everything spelled out for us, but we don’t. So we have to use biblical principles. Let me outline one of the biggest challenges because I will say any of us talking to our parents and grandparents on this, they are just like deer in the headlights. Because I will say my mom and my dad, who are, I’m the youngest of six kids, so there was a huge generation gap there. My mom was like, Lisa, this is not that hard. You should be able to find someone because she went to college, met my dad, stalked him at a few basketball games, went to a senior banquet, and got married. And she’s like, this is easy. You know, what are you doing? And I’m like, well, mom, this is very different now because here’s the deal. We have got people moving all over, literally the world for career changes, for education. We’re not with our family of origin necessarily. So all those structures that used to be in place in previous generations are not available to us. So, for example, where we might see some of it still in the Jewish culture, in Indian culture, where families helping family members find great matches still happening a little bit, that’s not the norm. And so we’ve kind of just turned all these young adults loose and are like, well, you know, find someone if you want, on your terms, but don’t let anyone meddle in your love life, because that’s your own personal business. And as a result, we have a generation or two of young adults who are just like, this isn’t working for me. It’s dangerous. It’s super sketchy. And so I think my recommendation, first of all, I mean, I’ll give you a couple of big-level recommendations that I have for young adults. The first is to get your team around you and be willing to say that you want to get married, that that’s your ultimate goal. If you want to just date people for nine years and go out on pizza dates, that’s not. You don’t need my advice. You just need to go and waste all that time. But if you actually want to find a great godly match, you need a team around you, and these are people who are going to pray for you. They’re going to keep their eyes open on your behalf. I mean, who better to help you find potential matches than the people who know and love you best? And so that’s just a great starting point. And then as you actually start dating people, they’re going to help you identify the red flags they’re going to be like. Because every person who’s dating, I mean, I think all you all listening will agree with me. If you’re really into someone, you tend to lose your mind, okay? And you can’t be objective. You get crazy. All of a sudden your checklist is out the window and, well, you don’t know him like I know him, okay? I am saying this, Johnny, because I’ve done that, okay? And I’m a super logical person, so if I can go off the rails, anyone can. So that said, having that team to just be that checks and balances, no one should be dating in isolation. And so you’ve got to have people who are, have eyes on, you have eyes on this relationship. It’s just good all around. And then really, my second big broad-based bit of advice is you’ve got to determine what your non-negotiables are. And I say this applies to IRL and real-life dating. This also applies to those who are going on apps and whatever, which I’m not opposed to, but I think they’re tools. They are not a means of just sitting and having a pen pal for an indeterminate amount of time. But that said, you know, you have got to decide what is non-negotiable. And so the contrary to this is building some hundred-point list of all the things you need in a future mate, which is ridiculous and will never be met because we’re all going to settle on some level. We’re all going to marry a sinner. We’re all going to have to settle. But you don’t have to sign up for a mess. Okay? So we don’t need anyone rescuing people here. We don’t need anyone, you know, well, he’s an alcoholic and he doesn’t have a job, but I’m sure he loves God. Okay, well, he can work on a few other things first. So anyway, that to say, I always say I’ve narrowed it down to about four things, and that’s this person is a disciple of Jesus Christ. So. And by that I mean they are actually in an active, living relationship with Jesus, submitting to his authority and to his word. This does not mean that they retweet Johnny Sanders once in a while or they were born in Texas or whatever. They actually are disciple walking it out. Number two, they are humble and teachable. You get those two character qualities and you’re going to get most of the other ones that you need in a person. As far as they’re going to be submissive to authority, they’re going to be willing to receive feedback, they’re going to be open to change. They’re going to be the person that’s like, if we’re in a rough patch and we need counseling, we’re here for it. And they’re not going to balk at that. They’re going to recognize when they need to access help. And again, I’m just a caveat here. All of these should apply to you, too. This isn’t like you’re looking for perfection, but you’re going to be a train wreck. So that’s really important. To have a person who is willing to admit fault and be willing to repent, believe, fight for their relationships, be the person who’s also going to forgive. Then they have to be an adult. So I say this is, they need to be in a position to marry. So that means they have a job. They can. You know, guys, you are actually going to be in a position to protect and provide for a family. Doesn’t mean you’re perfect, doesn’t mean you’re at the apex of your career, but it means that you’re doing grown-up things. You take ownership of your own decisions, you take responsibility for your habits, for your finances, for everything that’s going on. You are the person who can admit fault and can own up to it, you know, and be that person who’s really going to stand up and take responsibility for their decisions and not blame, blame, shift onto someone else, and then finally find someone who is moving generally in the same direction you are. So does that mean that you have to be a Chip and Johnny Sanders power couple who has a TV show? No. Does it mean that if you’re called to Uganda to build wells and the person you’re dating is called to start an accounting firm in Iowa, you need to have a conversation? Probably. So callings can mesh and callings can change and you can join someone’s calling, and that’s great. But just generally you have life goals that are headed in the same direction and things on paper there that reflect that. So those are kind of my four biggies. I think that you can have coffee with someone who has those four things. Okay. So. And I think you’re going to have a pretty good chance of success. And after that, you have to get into other conversations about children, about worship, you know, denominational or doctrinal proclivities that are all going to play into the success of a good marriage. But start with those things and you’re going to have plenty to talk about and plenty to grow in.

00:25:06 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, no, I think those are, those are. That’s a really good list of things to look for. Sounds similar to some words of advice that I’ve given to friends over the years, that I talk about it being a bit of a bullseye. That’s kind of the non-negotiables. Like you’re talking about those outside things. If, you know, hey, I’m a Christian, I’m gonna go, I want to be married to another Christian. But you’re on a date with someone that doesn’t believe in God. Well, that’s probably not a good place to start. Like, let’s. We can x, x that person out, but I also have friends that go the opposite direction and they gotta have blonde hair and be at this size and blah, blah, blah, like all these super specific ones, like, let’s. We don’t have to start there. That’s a little, little too specific. We don’t have to narrow it down that way. So I think you have some good practical ways, and I love having other people involved. That’s something in our culture. We’re very individualistic, and there are some positives to that. But hey, as Christians, God created us as social beings. He created us to have people in our lives. So why would we keep that to ourselves? Have some people that can pray for us and be a good guide. And you’re absolutely right. If you think that you would never be the one who would get too emotionally invested and kind of lose your mind over somebody, you’re wrong that you absolutely have those blind spots. So having people that can check in on you, that’s a fantastic word of advice there.

00:26:39 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah.

00:26:39 – Johnny Sanders
The last kind of sphere that I wanted to cover today, is a topic that’s really important to me, and honestly, it’s one of the topics that we get into pretty often on the podcast here, and that’s really just at work. Work can be its own culture. There are all sorts of things that are forced down on people out at work, especially depending on the size of the company you work at or where you work. And there can just be some very godless ideologies that are just forced on you at work, and especially as a. As a millennial, as you said, you have all these expectations and trying to prove yourself and do it. How do I stand for truths? And I. Should I say anything? Do I just get along just to get the paycheck? For younger people who are dealing with these kinds of issues of truth at work, how should they handle these situations?

00:27:41 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah, that’s so good. And it’s so funny you bring that up because I actually just interviewed for my show, Jordan Raynor, who actually wrote The Sacredness of Secular Work. And just because this is a big deal, I mean, for young adults especially, you know, you’re going into a company, you’re the lowest rung on the totem pole. You’re like, do I even have a voice here? I want to succeed. I don’t want to get fired. And so it could be a real challenge. And so I think, first of all, you have to decide, I mean, the one thing you can’t do on the job, and again, there are many things that you can do. There’s going to be gray areas in all kinds of areas and respecting authorities and all that. The one thing you can’t do on the job is straight up sin or be a party to sin. Okay? So anything in a company or work setting where you are being asked to bend the rules, to break the law, to go against your Christian convictions, that’s just your ticket to say, this has to stop. And you can. I mean, I would certainly encourage anyone on the front end to stand up and make their voice heard, and do what they can to be an influencer in that space, but that cannot. That’s got to be a pretty short tale as far as, like, how long you’re going to be in that ecosystem and survive, because we know first and foremost, we have to honor God with our work and with every part of our being. And so that’s just. That’s just a bottom line, non-negotiable for that. That said, you’re going to be in work environments where people are gossiping behind people’s backs. You’re going to have to be in this kind of sludge environment of like, this is not my church, small group. And so how do I do this for eight-plus hours a day? And that’s really where I think a lot of sensitivity comes into play, where you might have to just start having some conversations and being a leader in conversations and most importantly, setting an example where you are as to what you will and will not participate in or put up with and so, I mean, I think there are so many people who want to be known and want to be heard and want to feel like they’re part of something. And, man, Christians in the workplace can be that person. You might be the only safe person on your team that someone can just come and share something about. I was in. Prior to getting into ministry, I was in journalism and public relations. I worked on Capitol Hill for a while, and, in fact, I had so built up this idea or reputation on the paper, the magazine that I was on, that I was called the church lady. And this was. I generally, worked with a fair number of conservatives, but they weren’t Christians. And so it was very much like if your life was falling apart or even if you just needed a listening ear, it was like, just go to Lisa because she’ll listen to you. And I can’t tell you, Johnny, how many times I would just straight up offer to pray for people, and they’re like, absolutely, just do it. I mean, I’m so messed up, you know, and it just. It opened doors. And so to be that person who was going to first listen and just look them in the eye and show that I care was such a great place to be, to be able to kind of move the needle in the future when I was maybe asked for an actual opinion or had the opportunity to weigh in on something. And so I think that’s. That’s for sure tricky. I mean, there are a lot of things now in the workplace that are very divisive. I mean, very. You know, we’re being asked whether you need to go to a diversity and inclusion training. You might be asked to select pronouns and put them on your e-cig or on your name badge, you know, depending on the context of where you work. And that’s where I think. I mean, there aren’t many people, I would say, in the workaday corporate world who are like, so let’s go out and completely level all the Christians and offend them on every level we can. I’m not saying there aren’t some. Okay. I’m not saying that there aren’t companies and businesses where they kind of may have it out for us, but your mid-level manager who’s just trying to make ends meet and make the carpool by 05:30 p.m. they’re just like, okay, we’re doing what we can do. And that’s where I think Christians, we have the most opportunity to step in and just be that person who’s like, let me be an ally with you in just trying to create morale on our team and love people where they are and have conversations as we can stand up when we need to. And then, as you know, and I’m saying this because I’m assuming, I’m hoping. I’m talking mostly to you, millennials, and whatnot. As you get. Think of Daniel in scripture. As you start getting a little more influence, a little more position, a little more clout, as you start moving up the ladder or whatever, doors will open for you to start and to eventually become that decision-maker who can truly turn the tide on a culture and that you don’t know how. God will use you, but he can use you right now, and that’s where you start.

00:32:45 – Johnny Sanders
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you mentioned the pronoun usage. That’s one where, in fact, I just had a guest on Pamela Garfield Yeager, who just wrote a book about kind of tips of how to. For parents, how to deal with some of these gender-related issues. She’s not a Christian, she’s Jewish but has very, Just solid advice as far as that goes. And one thing she says with pronoun usage is, just don’t do it. Like, it’s really quite simple. That’s the good news there is, say to put it on your email signature.

00:33:22 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah.

00:33:23 – Johnny Sanders
Like, you just don’t. And the good news is that if you do that more people are going to follow you. More people are going to be in your camp. Because we were talking on there, too. Like, to respect other people’s pronouns, use that. It’s actually quite rare you refer to anybody’s pronouns in front of them. Just like, I would call you Lisa. I don’t call you she. Like, at. It’s just kind of a weird thing to begin with. So you stand on that, and you do it in a very calm way, a very respectful way. I don’t know what your repercussions will be, but more than likely, if you do that in respectful way, you’re gonna get respect back. You’ll get some hate back, sure. I won’t deny that. But you’ll also get respect from either your boss or other co-workers. And again, it’s not complicated. Um, it just takes courage. Um, and sometimes courage can be hard to muster up, but it’s. We don’t need to overcomplicate this stuff either. And you simply just go out and do it.

00:34:28 – Lisa Anderson
Yeah. And I think also, like, not. You don’t need to go in leading with guns blazing. I mean, it doesn’t have to be like, here. It’s my third day on the job. So let me lay out for you every one of my Christian convictions and how you’re wrong and you’re probably going to hell. And so I’m here to completely, you know, I’m in charge of saving you. You know, that’s the most comforting thing to me about the Christian faith, is that the Holy Spirit is doing his work and he cannot, I will not strong arm anyone into the kingdom. I will not. And I’m talking about coworkers. I’m talking about family members. I’m talking about whomever. I’m just there to take marching orders. What am I called to speak about? What am I called to? Who am I called to love? What does that look like? And I just show up and stay true to what God’s word says, and he does the work. And it’s happened over and over again, and it’s so neat to see it happen.

00:35:23 – Johnny Sanders
Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I know that there’s all sorts of more information and wisdom that you have out there. So, Lisa, how can people be in touch with you, get your book, kind of know more about you and the work that you do? How can they be involved with you after the show?

00:35:41 – Lisa Anderson
Absolutely. And we would love it because we love being kind of a community, you know, for young adults, guys and girls. So boundless.org is our site, and there we have a group blog. We have articles we publish each week. We can get our show there or anywhere that you listen to your podcasts. It’s called the Boundless Show. And then the book is The Dating Manifesto at Amazon or wherever books are sold. And so I hope folks will come. And we’re on social as well. So we like throwing questions out there and starting conversations and really, you know, again, helping young adults show up in adulthood and walk out what God is calling them to do right now.

00:36:19 – Johnny Sanders
Excellent. Well, I’ll include all of that down in the show notes below so you guys can go, go check that out. And Lisa, once again, thanks so much for being on the show today.

00:36:30 – Lisa Anderson
Thanks so much, Johnny.00:36:31 – Johnny Sanders
All right. And thank you all for tuning in. And I’ll catch you on the next.