Finding the Faith: Freda’s Journey from Jehovah’s Witness to Christ

Show Notes

In this episode of Faithfully Engaged, host Johnny Sanders engages in a captivating conversation with Freda, a special guest with a unique journey. Freda shares her transformation from an ex-Jehovah’s Witness to a nondenominational Christian and conservative. The discussion delves into various intriguing topics, including the creation of Frida’s podcast “Finding the Faith,” homeschooling, the significance of maintaining privacy in the digital age, and the value of focusing on positivity amidst societal challenges.

Freda also discusses the decision to re-enter social media for podcasting while considering privacy concerns, her intriguing Twitter handle “Based babe,” and the balance between online interactions and real-life relationships.

She shares her journey of embracing homeschooling as an enriching educational choice, highlighting the importance of tailoring methods to individual children’s interests, integrating faith and valuable life lessons into homeschooling experiences, and fostering creativity and personalized education at home.

Join the conversation as Frida shares her remarkable insights and perspectives on homeschooling, social media, and embracing positivity in today’s culture war. Don’t forget to subscribe to Faithfully Engaged for more engaging discussions and enlightening dialogues!

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Finding The Faith:


Faithfully Engaged Links







Johnny Sanders (00:09):

All right everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. Today we have a guest on, her name is Frida. And Frida, would you mind telling us a little bit about yourself?

Freda (00:21):

Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me. So my name’s Frida. I am the host of Finding the Faith, which is Thursday, 7:00 PM Live on Rumble. I am also an ex Jehovah’s Witness, just trying to figure out the whole religious thing. But right now I am a nondenominational Christian and I am a conservative.

Johnny Sanders (00:43):

Fantastic. So you are just all the bad things in the world. You are a terrible person. That’s what I heard from them. Yes,

Freda (00:51):

Yes. I’m a racist. I’m a Nazi. I’m all of itm trouble. It’s even my middle name.

Johnny Sanders (00:57):

There you go. Well, let’s start with your show First of Finding the Faith. Tell us just a little bit about that and why you decided to make that show.

Freda (01:09):

So for the longest time, I really wanted to get into the podcasting space, but I wasn’t entirely sure what I would podcast about. And then getting more and more into the culture war. A lot of it was kind of depressing to be honest. It was like every new day would find out that this company was doing this bad thing or this group of people, whether engaging in this really horrendous thing and it just felt nonstop, almost like you couldn’t breathe with all of the craziness and literal culture war going on. And I wanted to find a place where we kind of get to know each other in the culture war kind of this is who’s fighting behind next to you in that foxhole, a place of encouragement where we would focus on the good and the beautiful and not so much the external craziness. That’s just mind blowing.

Johnny Sanders (02:05):

Yeah, no, I think that’s a great reason and that’s honestly a lot of what led me into making initially the Truth and Grace Counseling podcast, but also now into Faithfully engaged that as Christians, as conservatives, I think we are rightfully concerned about things in the culture, and I don’t think we should turn a blind eye or just act like everything’s fine. That anger point oftentimes is necessary to realize, no, this is wrong. That being said, so much of the content out there is, yep, this is terrible. And

Then what? There’s nothing else going on with that. And I find that leads a lot of people to anger and apathy and it’s not helpful. It’s something we need to know about, but then go the next step. So I really appreciate that you’re trying to do that to show, yeah, there is encouragement. We need to know the people that I love how you put in the foxhole next to me and really engage in that to build each other up instead of, did you see what a O C Tweeted? That was stupid. That just doesn’t help us too much.

Freda (03:28):

Exactly. And I’ve been so blessed by getting into this because I mean, I live in a blue state with the exception of our brunch place, which is very, very special to me. They have amazing waitresses, we love them. I’ll give them Christmas gifts every year and they have Newsmax on while we’re all brunching trying to be normal people. But other than that, there’s not really a same person in sight. And so it’s just been such a blessing to get to connect with like-minded people who share the same values, who share the same or similar journeys and same experiences.

Johnny Sanders (04:11):

Yeah. Now, I don’t want to put you on the spot too much, but do you mind sharing what blue state that you’re in?

Freda (04:19):

That’s one of the things I don’t do.

Johnny Sanders (04:21):

Yeah, no, fair enough. Fair enough. With the craziness of the internet and people in the world, I don’t blame you. I don’t blame you with it.

Freda (04:32):

There’s two things that you won’t be able to figure out about me. I mean, you can look in public records and stuff if you really want to get into it, but I don’t say my state or my age or my last name because of what my husband does for work.

Johnny Sanders (04:48):

Okay, gotcha. Well, hey, I’m big on making the internet work for you instead of the other way around. The way that I probably do that the most is my wife and I, we were both off of social media for years when we got married, and that actually was fantastic and I kind of missed those days. It’s not that I can’t go back, but once I started the Truth and Grace counseling, I was like, I probably should have somewhat of an online presence just for business. I am making it work better. And this, I actually on Twitter, I hated Twitter to no end before, but I just say I’ve made my own little echo chamber and I realize that, but it’s made my life a whole lot easier that my head doesn’t hurt as much as long as I recognize I’m in echo chamber. Okay. So that’s one way. And then another way is I don’t put any pictures of my kids are the cutest little kids and I would get all sorts of likes and retweets and stuff, but I don’t want them, I don’t trust people. So they’re understand they’re going to have a very low internet profile. So I will completely respect you on that. I understand.

Freda (06:14):

I mean, it’s such a valid thing too because even if, I mean, let’s say you have a really intense fan and you put down your kid’s name, let’s say their name’s like Skylar or something, and they see you out and they’re like, oh, Skylar. And then Skylar’s like, how do you know my name? Hi, thinking it’s a safe person. The person actually knows their name, and obviously there’s a lot of stranger danger that goes into that, but it’s just getting far too easy to be creepy these days if we’re not minding our social media boundaries.

Johnny Sanders (06:46):

Yeah, yeah. I actually had a guess. Don here recently is a fascinating conversation that he is actually the founder of this website called Revett that looks at Reddit post and it can see if your post was shadow banned. And we were just talking through kind of shadow banning what that means and internet discourse. Yeah. But basically what we ended up getting down into is we are people. We need to make our individual, our real life. When you’re going to brunch with people, make those relationships paramount. Those are more important. The internet relationships are great. That’s how we’re talking. It’s fantastic. But don’t let the internet take over your life. It is not exactly, not worth it. Not worth it at all.

Freda (07:40):

Exactly. I mean, in 2020 when I left my first business behind, I went completely off social media, left everything behind, deleted everything, and just not having Instagram for that short while I didn’t realize how much trying to, not that I wouldn’t necessarily keep up with the Joneses, but hearing all of these cool new products and having those specialized ads and it’s like, oh wow, when I don’t have all of this materialism shoved on my throat pretty much 24 7, I don’t really want to shop anyways. I like what I have and I’m blessed to have what I have.

Johnny Sanders (08:19):

Yeah, no, they know what they’re doing. They absolutely know what they’re doing.

Freda (08:26):

So if it wasn’t for my podcast mentor, I honestly wouldn’t have gotten an Instagram again. But he’s like, you have to. And I’m like, fine.

Johnny Sanders (08:33):

Yeah, it is kind of a necessary evil when you’re doing things like this unfortunately. But again, let’s wield it for good. I would rather there be good content on Instagram than just all horrible, terrible things, which kind of leads into, I’m not on Instagram as much. I think I’ve followed you on Instagram, but I don’t remember. But I know I found you on Twitter and I was curious just with your handle named, which is the Base babe, which I think is a fantastic Twitter handle. Thank you. I was wondering if there’s any story or kind of what led you in to making that handle?

Freda (09:17):

So it was a couple things. Initially back in the 2015, the years right around then, I owned my own business called Boundary Babe. I did a lot of work with women, helping them with their boundaries, their femininity, trying to have healthier relationships with others because at the time I was also a psych major and I had gone through a lot of stuff that helped me really understand boots on the ground wise, how all of that worked. So I was really able to help people like that. But then 2020 came and my business being a luxury business kind of, it didn’t make it through covid. And honestly, retrospectively, I’m glad because that space was getting so woke that people were upset that I was spelling women’s coaching W O M A N instead of W O M X N, and all of this stuff is getting shoved down my throat.

And I’m like, you know what? I’m out. Bye if you guys going to get consistently have all these problems with me, I’m going to see myself out. And then I realized kind of took a step back. I was like, what matters to me the most? What truly are my values? And I realized that I’ve always been and kind of mainline conservative. I’ve had some libertarian escapades, but it’s always been about family. It’s always been about femininity, faith, freedom. And we had to do presentations when I was in high school. I went through their career technical education program. They were like, so whatcha going to do with your life? And I was like, they were expecting gentle assistant or doctor or nursing practitioner. And I was like, I want to be a wife and do a lot of volunteer work. And they were like, why did you take this? And I was like, because now if my husband gets hurt, I can fix ’em. Yeah,

Johnny Sanders (11:29):

Yeah. That’s so interesting, your discussion there and especially with your, I like talking to somebody that’s in a blue state like you are, because I am the reddest of all the red. I’m in rural Oklahoma. It really can’t get much more red. We’re the red part of a red state. I’ve

Freda (11:57):

Heard that they have amazing art museums in Oklahoma. Is that true?

Johnny Sanders (12:01):

They have what? That

Freda (12:03):

Amazing art museums.

Johnny Sanders (12:04):

There are some, especially in Tulsa. There’s some really good ones. I’m blanking on what the big one’s called. It’s something with a G. Can’t remember what it is. But anyways, yeah, there’s some really great ones. No, that’s a great question. There’s some good ones in Oklahoma City too. So yeah, we’re not all out in a wheat field and there’s absolutely nothing. But yeah, there’s some great art. There’s some really cool things in the state. And what’s neat about Oklahoma City and Tulsa is, well, yes, it is more liberal. There’s no way around that. It’s still red. I believe we’re the only state in 2016 to vote all red in the presidential election. And I know we did again in 2020, but I don’t know if we were the only one. But it was very conservative. That being said, I’m generally a harsher critic on conservative states and conservative just culture in part because I am in a conservative state, I am more conservative and I care about conservatives and kind of this culture more.

It means more to me. So it’s kind of like with my kids, I’m going to be more critical on my kids than someone else’s kids. Yeah, exactly. With that, in real super conservative culture, what you were describing there of more of a feminist type of mindset, you just want to do this to care for your husband, what’s wrong with you? That kind of mindset. Yeah, that happens in blue state. Sure. But it happens here too. And one in particular instance, we’re actually in Sunday school, so again, we’re in Sunday school in rural Oklahoma. That just needs to be said here. That’s very important

Freda (14:04):


Johnny Sanders (14:05):

Exactly. My wife was a teacher at the time, and at the time we weren’t planning on homeschooling our kids and now we are, but she was saying that she was planning on taking time off of work to be a stay at home mom, and she said she was going to do that until the kids were older. So she was planning on 10 years of being out of work, and we don’t expect everybody to say, oh, everyone has to do that. So that wasn’t the issue, but it was the shock like, whoa, you’re taking 10 years off. That was the most foreign idea ever in Sunday school in rural Oklahoma. So these kind of general cultural drifts of feminism and things of that nature, they exist here. Sometimes we think, oh, that happens in California, that happens in New York. That doesn’t happen here. It does. It absolutely does. And in fact, it can be quite more dangerous here in a red state because we have the blinders on. We think it can’t happen here. And it does. It very much does here.

Freda (15:30):

But that’s really awesome that your wife is having the opportunity to do that because that’s one of my personal financial dreams because right now I’m a homemaker and when that time comes for us to have kids, we are planning on homeschooling, we’re planning on me taking that time off until they can have more of a handle on their homeschooling. And I just help ’em work from home while they’re doing that. Because the best part of schooling for me from everything was when I was homeschooled and my best friends growing up or homeschooled. And it was just such an amazing culture and all the amazing things that they got to participate in.

Johnny Sanders (16:14):

Is that something with, especially since you had your own homeschooling experience growing up, is that something you’ve always wanted to do eventually for your kids or has that changed over the years?

Freda (16:27):

It’s been one of those, maybe we’ll check it out, let my husband take the lead, let him see what he thinks, kind of leaving it in his hands kind of things. But then as more and more and more crazy books were put in the library and more futures we’re having grooming charges against ’em and more PSYOPs and terrible things going on, were going on. I mean, we were like, there’s really only one way to do this. If we’re going to have kids, they’re going to be our most important investment in the world. They’re not our property. They belong to God. But also at the same time too, we are called to be faithful stewards in everything we have from our skin to our kids, to our homes and everything else. And it felt like it was the only responsible way to do it. And I know that not everybody is able to make the sacrifices. And I know that not everybody has a privilege, but I think there’s definitely some ways where you can make certain things happen, especially if you leave in God’s hands. And that’s what we intend to do, especially because is one of those things

Johnny Sanders (17:44):

I think for you, what you’re getting at here, and I’m big on this too, of not a, oh, look at me, I’m homeschooling. I got to stay at home. My wife, your family has to look exactly like mine. No, I don’t think that. What I do think though is the notion, particularly with women, and I actually have made this a focus of my counseling practice of working specifically with homeschool moms because there’s so many new homeschool moms out there that are like, oh, crud, there’s bad stuff going on. And they have the deer in the headlights look like, I can’t do this. I don’t have an education in this. I can’t teach my kids. And I think it’s just really important to, before you have kids, if you have that ability to prepare, if it’s something you want to do, prepare financially, prepare, look at some homeschooling curriculum or ask a homeschool mom of what do they do that works?

Freda (18:51):

I literally already have the curriculum picked out and I’m not even pregnant yet.

Johnny Sanders (18:54):

Well, there you go. Perfect example of don’t wait, just make the commitment. If you are ready to make the commitment to do it, make the commitment first and then make it happen. Most of the times, you are the limiting factor there and not your circumstances. And I’m not going to say that’s a hundred percent, but if you truly think you and your husband it’s best for you to homeschool your kids there more than likely is a way to get it done. You just have to make that commitment.

Freda (19:27):

Exactly. And I think it’s going to be really helpful too, because my sister-in-law, she has two kids. I’m an aunt of two, and they’re just amazing. My nephew caught a fish for the first time a couple days ago, so the whole family’s been excited about that, but she’s homeschooling her kids, and so we hope she’ll be able to move closer in the future to kind of homeschool our kids all together.

Johnny Sanders (19:51):

Yeah. Yeah. That’s the beauty of homeschooling too, that I think a lot of parents are starting to realize you don’t have to make it a little miniature public school in your house. Make it what works. If you have family nearby, do it together. If you have friends, trade off, teach different classes, join a co-op. There’s all sorts of different ways to do it. Don’t limit yourself into, you have to just have them get your own chalkboard and have ’em sit down for eight hours a day and do it exactly like you do at public school. No, don’t have

Freda (20:28):

To limit. I’m not trying to throw shade to anyone, but if you’re doing the chalkboard and desk route and you’re doing the, here’s the worksheets, do the worksheets. It has to be kind of like training for nine to five, but inside our own home, you’re missing the point. You’re missing the opportunity and you’re missing the experience that it really could be with connecting with your child. And I know it can be hard at first because I’ve helped parents who are homeschoolers. I’ve helped, I’ve been a homeschooler for a small portion of my education, but I just think that it’s really crucial because I mean, to a degree of, thankfully I’ve had both sides of being homeschooled and not being homeschooled. And when I was in public school, I would go and I would learn things all about evolution and all these things that are scientific theories, but they don’t present the other side of the theory and everything. And then after that, I would get home and I would have to sit for five hours reading about all why the things I just learned for the past eight hours in school were wrong. And it’s like if you don’t program your kids with what the world has to say and think, then you won’t have to deprogram your kids.

Johnny Sanders (21:44):

That’s a great point. I think you nailed it there, that it’s the ideologies of the world and not just the bad teacher, the one rotten apple type of concept. And I want to be careful with that. I know there’s great teachers out there. I have family members that are teachers. The system is working against them, and you don’t want to put the system just into your home. You’re saying you can teach them about, if you’re a Christian, teach ’em about God, make that a massive part of their education. How cool is that? You have that ability to do it. And even on the more practical levels with my three-year-old, my daughter, how we’re going to educate her is different than with my one-year-old son.

Freda (22:42):


Johnny Sanders (22:43):

My daughter loves to go and pick flowers, go have her on a day when she’s, it’s nice outside. We’re going to go pick a dandelion and think of all the things we can do with that. We can look at the science of the dandelion and kind of inspect that. We can make dandelion the spelling word of the day. We can look at the grammar, what type of word is dandelion. We just did that by picking something out of the backyard.

Freda (23:12):


Johnny Sanders (23:13):

It’s limitless what you can do, so don’t limit yourself.

Freda (23:18):

You can even have a little field guide book that you make for yourself. I’ve actually gotten into making my own books with book finding. I’m such a d I y nerd, and you can press the flower and then have look back at it at the end of the year and look at all the flowers you want there.

Johnny Sanders (23:35):

Yeah. I had another guest on here recently on Instagram goes by Sweet Sequels, has her own little shop there, and she talked about that They have a unique setup that they do like a hybrid. So half the week they’re at this private school and half the week they’re at home. Again, there’s just so many different ways, and I know that can be overwhelming. That’s the easy part of home or public school or even just normal private school. They go to school, they get their school list and then they come home and that’s it. So I know that can be overwhelming, but yeah, you can speak so much truth and life and fun into your kids, and that’s what I try to get parents to do is realize, no, it’s not just this. Oh man, I’m obligated because they’re shoving all this ideology down my kid’s throat. Yeah, maybe you start there, but let’s finish with all the wonderful, beautiful things that are presented there. Absolutely.

Freda (24:43):

Exactly. And I feel like sometimes there can be kind of that imposter syndrome, if you will, when it comes to parents being like, oh, well, I don’t have an education background. I’m fortunate. I actually, I worked in education in 11 years, but a lot of parents don’t have that kind of experience. And so they look at themselves and they’re like, I’m just a parent. And it’s like, no, you are a parent. That is a blessing. Nobody knows your child better than you do. And when it comes to all of the different curriculums, they absolutely can be overwhelming. There’s so much to them, but because of the fact that you are the parent, your child the best, your child’s better than anybody else, and because of that factor, you can go this curriculum with these aspects of it is the exact way that my child learns. And so they’re not going to be stuck on this topic, not being able to grasp it more fully because it’s in this type of curriculum in that way, it really helps not only free you up as a parent, but you know that your child’s getting the best education because of the fact that you are the one educating.

Johnny Sanders (25:53):

Yeah, yeah. No, I just think you’re, like you said earlier, missing the picture. If it’s just a out of fear, I don’t want the L G B T Q whatever agenda shoved on my kid. That’s fine. To be a starting place. And to kind of back up, some of the listeners may have heard this from me before, my wife and I, our starting place was this story we heard, we were listening to Abe Stuckey’s podcast this 2019 or something, and she shared this story of a public school, I believe it was in Madison, Wisconsin, and where they were, I think just socially transitioning this child, so calling, I think they even called this child a completely different name. And I don’t even remember which sex of the child this was, but we’ll just say for sake of argument. You have a little girl and they call your little girl a little boy at school, and then they go back home and they never told you that they were calling your little girl a little boy.

And we heard that story like, oh no, that doesn’t fly. I don’t like that. And that was the precipice for us to really dig deeper into this. And while that was our starting point, that’s not where it stayed. It went so much deeper. And now, yeah, we have all of our curriculum bought too, and we’re already doing for my three-year-old and honestly starting to do with my one-year-old, we have some different baptist catechisms that we’re doing with them. My daughter won’t ask Who made you? And she’ll say, God made me and it’s awesome. My little three year

Freda (27:47):

Old all about

Johnny Sanders (27:48):

Is quoting some scripture and things like that, and that’s education. She’s not kindergarten, but we’re already educating her and it’s awesome. Exactly. Don’t just live in that fear. Understand the joy that it can really bring.

Freda (28:07):

Exactly. There’s so much good and beautiful out there, especially if you open your mind and your heart and let God guide you.

Johnny Sanders (28:14):

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I know we talked just real briefly off air of your faith journey and a spoiler alert for those out there, it’s quite the doozy. So just start with us a little bit of, yeah, what was your faith journey? What did that all look like for you?

Freda (28:39):

So I was born to an Irish Catholic single mother in Ireland. She was originally from Boston. I am a naturalized citizen. So before I got on the plane, just in case, didn’t want me to end up in purgatory, they made sure I was baptized with some family members at one of the churches in Ireland. And then I came over to this country with the help of my grandfather’s friends. The kind of days, yes, those kind of days. And I was baptized in the Boston diocese, which fun, super random fact kind of cool how I always managed to be just a couple steps away from Kevin, bacon greatness kind of thing.

My childhood priest Father Jack was actually when they were doing the, for how they anoint the Pope or with the red smoke. Yeah, I’m no longer a Catholic, so I’m not trying to commit Sy or anything, but he was in succession to potentially the Pope. Oh, wow. Which to me is so wild that my childhood priest who we’re actually going to be naming our son after in the future, my husband’s family tends to make boys. So we planned for both bunch. So yeah, so he almost became the pope. And then when my mom unfortunately ended up getting cancer passing away, I was left to be inherited by her older sister who had never wanted kids and made that really apparent every day I existed. And she basically told me, oh, if you’re a really good girl and you do all these things, you can see your dead mom again. And I was like, I’m seven, of course, I want to see my dead mom again. That’s my mom.

So because of that, I, if you ask her her version of the story, she says that she offered me to get me a babysitter or to go with them. And I was in survival mode and I was a people pleaser, and I was like, you go to three meetings every week and you’re gone for a long time. It’s going to be really expensive to keep me around and not stick me in foster care if you have to keep paying for babysitters. So I guess I’ll just go with you. So I go, and at this point, my mom was still alive, but she was in the hospital and there was so much love bombing that took place. It was insane, the amount of love bombing. But because I was seven, I just thought everybody was really nice and everybody really liked me. And I was like, okay, there’s a bunch of free candy and people being nice to me. Of course, all of it. I’m going to get all this candy and get to my dead mom again. It’s great. And so I went through that. I went through kind of their hierarchical steps. First I became an unbaptized publisher, which is basically Jehovah’s Witness speak for, if I talk to you about Jehovah, I get to count 15 minutes or however long we spoke on a little sheet and get a little pat on the head from the elders.

And then after that I got baptized at nine years old because I was running out of things I could do in that hierarchy kind of. And then after that, I auxiliary pioneered, which is doing 50 hours every month going around and door knocking. Did that several times. So imagine me being in high school and not only holding down a part-time job, which was like three days a week, but going to three meetings a week and then also doing 50 hours of that community service on top of doing the other community service, which was called the Regional Building Committee, which is going around and doing all of this unpaid labor for them to build more kingdom halls and do stuff like that. Pretty tiring and probably explains why I can’t actually relax.

Johnny Sanders (32:54):


Freda (32:55):

Will staying on honor roll, of course, because anything else was just unacceptable. I brought less than glory for God.

Johnny Sanders (33:06):

So that is, I’ve heard of Jehovah’s Witness and know a little bit of study, but it’s says work based to the core as it can get.

Freda (33:16):


Johnny Sanders (33:18):

Goodness. Yeah. So you’re caught in that you’re just working your way to heaven, so to speak. Then how do you get out of that?

Freda (33:32):

So I got in trouble for kissing a boy because I was a rotten little tramp in their eyes, and I had to go and sit in front of three men a bit older than yourself and tell ’em, oh yes, when that boy kissed me, I did kiss him back. Well, my aunt and uncle were on either side of me. And then when I did other teenage things, I got in more trouble because I was trying to just figure things out. I was like, okay, this is what this says, but this is what this says, but other things are telling me this. So I was trying to figure it out while still managing to be a good noodle because I also, even though I never asked for, it was annoyingly the person that all of the other parents held their kids up to be, why can’t you be more like freedom? And I’m like, no, your kid’s awesome. Just the way they are, let them live. I didn’t ask for this. And then everybody hated me and I was like, well, this is awesome.

And so I thought, so because of those transgressions during my teenage years, I wasn’t allowed to pioneer, which do 70 hours a month every month for an entire year. I wasn’t allowed that privilege. And I had based my entire post high school experience off of that. I was going to pioneer for a year, and then I was going to go and get some more training on education and do some other stuff. And I had gotten to that point and I was like, I can do it. I can do it. It’s going to be great. And they were like, no, because she kissed a boy a couple of years ago, so everybody still thinks you’re a tramp. And I’m like, oh, well that’s not cool. No, thank you. He was cute. It was my birthday. I dunno. No, but actually my first kiss was literally a Taylor Swift song. It was on the riverbank of my aunt’s property as the sun was setting on my 13th birthday. Can’t make that stuff up.

Johnny Sanders (35:32):

That’s awesome.

Freda (35:34):

A boy who was so southern, I couldn’t pronounce his last name. I wasn’t sure what he was signed, but anyways, I digress. So I finally kind of just throw myself into work post high school, do a bunch of volunteer work, do what I can do to kind of prove myself that I morally of being able to be a pioneer because a lot of the brothers would only look at you to be potential marriage material if you were a pioneer. So I was like, I want to get married. I want to get myself a husband after Pioneer, I have to do all the things. And during that era, I was just like, nah, because my aunt got really sick and had some severe mental health problems and it was just my uncle believed her that she was a prophetess and that she was going to bring about Armageddon. And I was like, no, I don’t even have to have taken that one high school psychology class to tell you that she’s having a break from reality. So I had to help her with that. And the more I saw this and the more I saw the interplay with the elders and how everybody was handling things and just watching me be the one little teeny opport teenager girl who somehow got shoved into this position without giving me the love and production that I desperately needed, I was like, this isn’t a place for me.

And I just felt so haunted by it. And so I was like, well, maybe if I pioneer and I go out and I try to prove that Jehovah exists to everybody else, I’ll prove it to myself maybe. And I finally got the opportunity, I even got to do cart witnessing, which for those of you who don’t know, it’s like a really big deal. You have to be more special than a pioneer to be able to go and stand by the carts and do the witnessing and being like, Hey, sir, businessman, I know you’re on a business meeting, but here, take this. Just shove a magazine in your hands. And the thing is, a lot of the people who are Jehovah’s Witnesses are lovely people who are honestly being spiritually oppressed. So when I say my experience, there’s two things I don’t want people to take away.

I don’t want them to take away that I was some sort of victim. I’m a survivor. I survived and I escaped that call. And I also don’t want them to be mean and nasty to Joe’s witnesses because a lot of them don’t know what they’re doing. They’re doing the best that they can and doing what they’re told because a lot of times their family’s in there or they have a lot of reasons for being stuck in there because when you grow up in it, or even when you can’t go out and have friends that aren’t part of your religion, and it’s their way of controlling you even further so that when you eventually do leave, if you do get to leave, thankfully there’s been record numbers, but you lose everything. I lost my best friend of 10 years, I lost my hairdresser. I mean, let me tell you, I did stay to get my final round of highlights.

I matched that perfectly because I don’t trust a lot of people with my hair. But I lost all of my little friends. I lost all of my babysitting clients. I lost everything. And then because of the fact that I hadn’t grown up around my family, it was just, I didn’t really have anybody except for my husband because the way this whole thing worked was I was pioneering, I was doing great. And then I met my husband and I was like, I mean, this is obviously the man I want to marry. He is the most Christ-like man I’ve ever met. He has an amazing work ethic. He’s so hilarious. And I mean, he’s gorgeous. I used to How

Johnny Sanders (39:34):

More gorgeous than the 13 year old on the riverbank though?

Freda (39:38):

Yes. Okay. I met him that summer before I started pioneering, and I was just like, oh my gosh. I walked over to him and mind you as a JE aren’t actually Christian, but there’s a lot of similarities in the social awkwardness of young actual Christian girls and young Jehovah’s Witness girls. And I had that. And I walked over to him. He was picking up my favorite camper, and I was like, hi, I’m Ms. Frida. And he’s like, hi, Ms. Frida. And he immediately made fun of me and I was like, yes, I’m going to marry him.

And I did. So it worked out. So we started being friends and I was like, I really need to see about the whole Jehovah’s Witness thing because if I go this way, I’m going to lose everything. So I was a bit afraid to go that way, but the more we got to know each other, the more he held space for me emotionally and held space for my growth and my healing and everything else, the more it was undeniable that it was inevitable. So I was pioneering. I was kind of fibbing on my, here’s the thing, when you’re escaping a cult, I’m sure you already know this, which is for the audience, you’re in ultimate survival mode. You do things that you are not proud of, but you do them to survive.

Johnny Sanders (41:12):


Freda (41:13):

So yes, I was as a 20 year old, sneaking out my window to Miranda Lambert music jumping over the thorn bus and talking, rolling into his passenger seat because I wasn’t allowed to date him. So as a 20 year old, I was going to do what I was going to do, and I was fibbing all my time cards. And I mean, that’s not a good thing objectively, but it’s what I had to do to make sure that I would be physically and financially and all the other types of safe. And so it was brutal

Johnny Sanders (41:56):

How long of a process and this kind of limbo of sorts that I’m having to fake this, but I’m dating my to be husband over here. How long of a process did that take?

Freda (42:10):

About six months. The worst six months of my life to get out on Saturday nights, I pretended I was learning. I mean, I knew enough Portuguese to pretend that I was learning Portuguese and going to the Portuguese meeting, it’s funny, it’s not good. I’m doing a lot better morally and ethically now that I can afford the luxury of morals and ethics. But yeah, so it was a whole thing. And that was kind of when I kind of proved to myself, if I haven’t been struck down by lightning yet, if I haven’t been caught yet, if I haven’t been anything yet, then I don’t think Jehovahs are actually a real God.

And what really hit the nail on the head for me was they have these things called circuit assemblies, which is when a bunch of congregations from a certain area get together, and all of these people, they give these big important speeches and all sorts of stuff like that. So I’m going to that and I am not paying attention. I at this point, I can finally hear the propaganda that’s breaking through my brainwashing. And I’m like, this is so uncomfortable. I think I’m going to throw up. Does anybody have a Xanax or something because I’m going to pass out and have a panic attack.

And somebody walked up to me and they were like, Hey, I heard your story about you and your aunt and how you’re being such an amazing person by taking care of her. I think there’s a lot of people in this organization that have sick parents that could really learn from your example. Meanwhile, I was doing all of this stuff that I was raised to believe wasn’t what you were supposed to be doing. And I was like, me? And he’s like You. And I was like, ah. And I’ve been writing for the local paper. And then they wanted me to write for the Awake magazine, which they have two magazines kind of go around and pass out the watch hour on the awake. And I was like, what you want me to do? What?

And that’s when I knew that if the big head honcho from Bethel himself that if you asked him, Jehovah’s Witnesses would probably tell you he could walk on water. If he didn’t know what I was doing, if he didn’t have some magical sense of figuring out how I was not being the best noodle I could be, then that’s when kind of the facade of everything just kind of came crumbling down. And I was like, yeah, nah. And it got to the point where one day I was found out they were coming out, we were late coming back and that Sunday morning and I was like, I’m going to be in so much trouble. And then my stiletto just fell out on the floor and I was trying to grab at it. Well, they were looking in the car and I was like, oh my God.

Oh my God, it’s over. But then I was like, no, you know what, it’s over. And so they dragged me before the elders, because the thing is, there’s a couple ways to get out. You can be pmo, which is physically and mentally out, you can be poy. These are just weird acronyms. It makes more sense, but it’s easier to type out on the social media, but physically out mentally in your disfellowship. But you’re trying to come back because you can either get dissociated or disfellowship. Dissociated is when you break up with them. Disfellowship is when they kick you out.

And so initially I was just going to kind of run away a little, but I was just going to stop either this’s going to be fine. It was not fun. And they dragged me before them and they were asking all these really intimate, intimate questions, questions that if you imagine guys’ locker room, talk about how a certain thing went down, you would not be that crass. And I’m just this 20 year old girl sitting in front of these three men who are in their fifties and sixties with both of my aunt and uncle next to me. And I’m just like, I don’t believe in Jehovah anymore. I don’t know if I believe in God at this point. I have gone through all of this. I’ve done my best to do all of the things I can do. I’m here. I’m car witnessing, I’m pioneering. I’m ready for the awake.

I’m doing all of this stuff and giving my entire life to the organization. I’m giving my entire life to God, and I’m not getting anything back. And I’m not even getting good, happy serotonin. I’m getting nothing. I’m getting pain. I’m getting frustration. I’m getting lies and I’m not here for it. So I think I’m going to leave and I’m going to go be with my future husband, and that’s just going to be that. And then they crossing and pressing and pressing to a point where I felt because of who they were, I had to answer their questions. Although I realize now that I didn’t have to answer their questions, that I was a scared 20 year old girl. Sure. Well,

Johnny Sanders (47:42):

A scared 20 year old girl too, with this is all, this is your life, so that makes sense.

Freda (47:51):

And so I answered them and then they kicked us out of the room. We sat in the main hall, they had a main hall, and then they had a little back conference room. They had a conference about it. They were like, no, we’re kicking her out. And at the end I just said, it’s been nice knowing you. I love you guys because I meant it. Because yes, I might have had wildly different worldview than they did, but I still cared about them and hope that their lives and their wives and their kids and everything worked out that the way they wanted it to be, even though they had put me in the situation, even though they didn’t particularly help when I ended up having to 51 50, my aunt when she thought she was calling about Armageddon, and I was talking to ’em from inside a closet, and it was a whole thing. And it was so brutal that I was like, I think the only person that can protect me is me, and I’m going to go do that. And so I got this fellowship, nobody could talk to me. It was a whole full on. It was a medieval shunning.

And I was like, it is what it is. And then people would come over to talk to my aunt and uncle that they were friends with them, and they’d be like, come back to Jehovah, we miss you. And it’s like, you didn’t speak to me early for six years. The past six years we have barely spoken, but now all of a sudden, I matter so much to you because I’m trying to protect myself. And it was always the same older brothers that had previously gotten disciplined for doing sketchy things with their stepkids. And then the elder who was initially on my first judicial committee, which is what the committee’s called when they meet, and they’re like, so you’re bad. Tell us mad. I was out dancing with some of my girlfriends from high school. I was trying to meet new people and just make friends and stuff. And two of them came in and he was grinding and dancing on my friend. And I’m like, what? So I would tap him on the shoulder and I’m like, Hey, what’s up? And he looked like he saw a ghost and was just dying. And I was like, yeah, I know why I’m here. I can be here. I don’t have to play by your roles, but you do. You’re literally within the top part of the hierarchy of your congregation. Why are you here?

And so during that point, I was just fellowship and it was really hard because my aunt and uncle weren’t really talking to me, even though I lived there because they were so hyper. I’m sure there’s a psychology word for it, but there were helicopter parents pretty much, and they wouldn’t let me get my license. They wouldn’t let me do anything so I could go away and get out and move on. And that made it even harder when they came to me one day and they were like, the elders told us that if you’re not going to serve Jehovah in this house, that we need to make sure you go away and that you go and leave this house and don’t live here anymore. And I’m like, what? Okay. But because of the fact that they FFR so much on education, they frowned so much on they themselves individually frowned so much on me getting my license and not helping me have any of the resources that most normal families would help their kids have so that they could progress immature when they weren’t desperately afraid that you’d leave them. I was just at a loss. I was like, I don’t know what I’m going to do. So I was homeless for a little bit.

I went from couch to couch to couch, and then my father-in-law allowed me to move in. And we had just gotten engaged because my husband, he was like, okay, if you’re leaving literally everything behind for me, which he made sure, he’s like, I love you very much. I will do whatever you need me to. If you can’t leave, if you don’t feel like leaving is the right thing to do, I’ll understand that and you will be the love of my life that got away. It is what it’s, and he never forced me to make any choices or anything that I was uncomfortable with at any point in our relationship. And still 10 years, it’ll be 10 years next September to this day, he still hasn’t. He’s just loved me and provided for me and protected me. And it was such a stark contrast to how I grew up. And so

Johnny Sanders (52:48):

I’m sure you’re getting to this, but thus far in the story, incredible of a story as it is. It almost reminds me of the Scientology stories of just people getting out. And it was a cult, and it really affected me, incredibly powerful. But often, for many reasons and reasons, I couldn’t blame them. I’m out of religion completely. No more. I’m out of here if this is God is, I don’t want any part of it. So how does that work? I get out of this cult where this is just shoved down my throat. How do you find God after that? What’s the next step after that?

Freda (53:44):

So obviously you with your career and everything, know Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So the bottom tier, I got the bottom tier of survival set in. I had a place to live. I had a job. I had food. I had what I needed. Then I worked up kind of the pyramid, maybe in editing they can show a little thingy, have it or something.

Not trying to tell you how to live reliably. But yeah, so I kind of got that dialed in and when I felt like I could shake my contacts out before I went to bed at night and actually breathe, that’s when I started crying. And I didn’t quite know how to, but my heart knew. And so I drifted back to my Catholic days. I drifted back to the prayers that my mom would get on her knees right in front of the big portrait of Jesus that lay over my bed in our gorgeous penthouse overlooking find wife pot and would pray. And I went back to that. I found those words in my heart again. And I said them because I knew that no matter what was going on with me, if God was the real was out there, I mean now I know that he is very much, but just where I was back then, kind of his plans for the world, for myself, if I was fortunate enough to be kind among them, were so much bigger than anything I was going through.

It was so much bigger. It was so much better. And what was on the other side of that was so much more crucial and poignant than anything I had ever come up against. And so I knew that all it took was the faith, the size of a mustard seed, which is super, super teeny. And if I could have that, and if I could hold that in my heart, the good things would happen that I would feel that love, that I would feel that protection. And I would feel a lot safety because my sunscreen’s getting in my eyes and it’s making my eyes water, which is not a coping mechanism, I promise you. Sorry about that. That’s good. And so I knew that if I just did a little bit and gave a little bit, that he would give a little bit. Can we actually pause right here? I literally am having No,

Johnny Sanders (56:26):


Freda (56:27):

Good. I’m so sorry. You’re good. It genuinely is sunscreen. It’ll be right back. If I had faith, the side of a mustard seed, that scripture always stuck with me in my heart. And I never had hatred for God. I just had more confusion because the God that they taught me the Jehovah was, it was not the God that I was brought up with for the first five years of my life, believing that Jesus was, I have vivid, vivid memories skipping around my little Catholic preschool, the little Catholic Montessori preschool that was right across the street and going, Jesus loves me this I know because the Bible tells me. So I love Jesus and I feel like it would be so easy for anyone coming out of job’s, witnesses to really hate God. I mean, that’s one of my biggest issues I have with Jehovah’s Illnesses.

I mean, there’s a lot of theological things or there’s a lot of other things. There’s a lot of personal past experience, things the latter, which have mostly heal from things to therapy. But just I have this real to be like, okay, I’m not here to tell you what religion you’re supposed to be, but just whatever you do, please don’t become a Jehovah’s Witness that will hurt your relationship with God. And because of all of the horrible things I’ve seen during my time there and the horrible things that I researched that kind of clicked in my head afterwards, there were certain pictures that they had in their publications and I was like, why does this picture of Jesus make me feel so uncomfortable? It’s a picture of Jesus. Is there something wrong with me? Is there something wrong with my hot posture that I have to correct that I’m just like, I don’t know, doing something bad where your mind goes do when a picture of Jesus makes you feel uncomfortable. And then I found that same picture after I came out, and if you put that picture up to a mirror, it’s literally the head of a demon.

Johnny Sanders (58:39):

Good grief.

Freda (58:41):

Yeah. And that’s not the only picture that’s like that. It’s not the only satanic thing in the religion. I know you’re Baptist, but Baptist have communion, right?

Johnny Sanders (58:56):

Yeah. So we, it kind of depends on the church. We do communion at my church every week. But yeah, we do communion.

Freda (59:06):

So with the communion wafer and the wine, have you heard of the memorial? The one holiday witness’s house?

Johnny Sanders (59:13):

Yeah. Yeah.

Freda (59:15):

A lot of people have been invited throughout the years. That celebration is literally, so part of it is a theological misrepresentation, and a part of it is satanic, honestly. So the theological representation is they believe that the 144,000 isn’t chosen out of the 12 tribes of Judah, but instead chosen out of random Jehovah’s witnesses that have a mental calling vision dream kind of thing. And it’s 144000 cents, 1914. And because of that, if you’re not a part of the 144,000, you take the communion, you hold it in your hands on the plate. They use unleavened wafer cracker kind of thingies, but they’re different from the one that I grew up with in the Catholic church. So they’re slightly different, but basic idea. And you take that and you pass that. So you basically go through the act of refusing communion on the one holiday that Jehovah’s witnesses have, and then they read the scriptures and then you do the same with the line.

Johnny Sanders (01:00:30):

Wow. That is So, yeah, you can really see the satanic type of things that go into that. That is, like you said, the exact opposite of what we would celebrate. Interesting. Regardless

Freda (01:00:50):

Of your denomination, if you are in Christianity, you observe communion by taking it and it becoming part of you, not by passing it forward and rejecting it. And it always struck me as weird that it was such a somber energy. It was more funeral than, more somber than sacred, I guess, because you’d think, okay, tonight is the night specifically set aside to commemorate what Jesus has done for us, that he gave his life and that God the Father, so that he gave his only begotten son, the only son directly created by him, that we might be saved, that we might have the gift of eternal, depending on different theological points, but that we have a chance and no matter how much we’re imperfect, as long as we do the things that the Bible tells us to do, you’d think there’d be some happiness in that. You’d think there’d be some reverence and sacredness, not some somber, you’re going to a funeral ishness. And that’s how it always was.

Johnny Sanders (01:02:09):

Well, I think that’s something that you get into with, I think it’s part of what makes Christianity stand out as a whole. Obviously there’s different theological beliefs and differences and denominations, but it isn’t a workspace religion. It’s not about, in fact, I was just on a guest on another podcast this morning and used a great phrase of It’s not what it’s who. It’s that Christ, and that’s what the celebration is around. It’s not about anything you did. It’s that he did. And we love him and we praise him for saving us, despite us not being justified. And yeah, that’s celebratory. Thank God for saving me and not a, well, I’m not good enough. I could see that somber tome. That is intriguing. It

Freda (01:03:15):

Felt like New Year’s mixed with a funeral, but kind of like a military funeral. If you’ve ever been to a military funeral, you kind of know the difference where it’s a bit more like I have a military family background. My grandfather fought in World War II on Gu Canal and our family lineage with military history dates all the way back to the Revolutionary War where my great times 10 grandfather warned about the British coming Paul River.

Johnny Sanders (01:03:51):


Freda (01:03:51):

Mad defi him.

Johnny Sanders (01:03:54):

Yes. Yeah.

Freda (01:03:56):


Johnny Sanders (01:03:59):

Yeah, no, you can see that kind of to your point there though, that it’s very regimented, very ritualistic in that kind of sense. But yeah, not a lot of joy. Not much joy. You’re awful.

There’s a piece when we start looking at scripture, if you look at the law, you’re looking through Leviticus, through the 10 Commandments. There is a piece there of the law that shows, yep, you can’t do that. That whole honor your mother and father thing. You probably backtalk at some point. You can’t do this on your own. And that’s a good thing. That’s that brokenness of showing. Yep, you’re right. I can’t do this. I do need a savior. And that points me to the cross, which is fantastic that we showed I can’t do this, but guess what? Christ did it for me. And that’s beautiful. That is a beautiful coming together, but it almost seems here, Jehovah’s Witness, it’s, first off, you have a worst version of the law to begin with, and then that’s it. You’re terrible. Work your way up. Maybe you make, but probably not. That’s not very encouraging.

Freda (01:05:21):

Yeah, it wasn’t, and it was really hard to fit into growing up because for being a religion that was also very, I mean, that was kind of just one of those teeny bopper little kids that was nice to everybody as much as I, I’d be, and then everybody else to a degree was nice to me except for this one frenemy I had who I thought we were friends. I was naive. I was a sweet, sweet summer child. And so I told her, I was like, oh my God, my, and then immediately she went and told the elders because it was one of those religions where was kind of, it was actually, I had a talk last night with my friend Justin, who he was in prison for about 15 years. And so it’s kind of like if an inmate has information about another inmate and they don’t tell the guards, then they get massively punished. And that was just striking similarity to my experience that I was like, wait. Whoa. That was crazy. Because if I didn’t go and tell somebody, if I knew something, this girl who kissed another boy from a different congregation in the library of the Kingdom Hall that I would get in trouble if they found out I knew about it. This is Realty Realty based on real events.

And so it always felt like everybody was looking at me. Everybody knew things. I remember once when I was trying to figure things out and toe back in when I was fence sitting when I was 20 before I met my husband, I remember I was kind of in a relationship with this other guy and he wanted to shake me on a street art tour in New York, except there were many problems with that. If you have a fully developed brain, but if you don’t and you were raised in a very, very sheltered environment, you don’t see them. You only see the fact that, oh no, Bethel is in New York. What happens if somebody sees me and spots me and tells my parents, it doesn’t matter that I’m 20? What if they tell my parents,

Wow, I remember we finally get to New York. I had told them that I was hanging out with some bath lights that had come down and I was going to be at my friend’s house, and I hid my Bible underneath my trundle bed. Not the best moment, but it makes for an interesting story. And we get there finally to New York after taking a small break and sleeping in a New Jersey parking lot in the car, and Jesse’s there two jobs, witnesses doing car witness. And I was like, they found me. They know I was a significantly paranoid child. And I’m sure with your background you can see why.

Johnny Sanders (01:08:18):

Sure. That to somebody that’s on the outside, wow. Yeah, you’re really making too much of that, that I’ve had Jehovah’s witness at my door. That’s common, but to you, that makes all the sense in the world because that was not safe. You don’t feel safe. So it felt real. It felt like they’re really going to come and get me.

Freda (01:08:42):

Yeah. I hid behind him as we were passing. I was like, they don’t know me. They can’t tell. I tried to put on how the chameleons just do that thing and then all of a sudden they’re a different color. I tried to tighten up and do that thing and I’m like, no, I’m a worldly person. You don’t help me.

Johnny Sanders (01:09:03):

Yeah. Now, since you’ve kind of been out of this, it’s been several years now. Yeah. Do you feel your faith, and I don’t mean this in any type of disparaging way, we all have different doubts at certain times. Do you feel some of those old doubts that kind of creep back up because of your experience? Or do you almost kind of feel the opposite that your past experience has just really fortified your faith throughout the years?

Freda (01:09:39):

Depending right now, my answer would be very different than three months in or three years in where I was, I honestly don’t really care who knows this, but I was diagnosed with C P S D because of all of the jehova’s witness stuff. And because of that, I would have really bad panic attacks and I would wake up in the middle of the night sweating and screaming that Armageddon was going to come get me, and I was going to die at Armageddon because the last thing my aunt and uncle said to me before they kicked me out of the house and Kyle came and picked me up because they had assaulted me. And I couldn’t go to the police and be like, yeah, they assaulted me. Because it would just be a whole thing was your mom’s going to be so mad at us that we let you die at Armageddon because of the fact that you’re a piece of trash.

So because of that, I used to wake up screaming and going, oh my God, Armageddons going to get me. But in my late teens, I automatically kind of thought I was going to die at Armageddon anyways. I wasn’t good enough. Who was God to love me? Nobody loved me really. And so because of that I was just like, but then I kind of just pushed it away. I pushed it away, got through it. Then now the only time I really had an issue, that was right before I started my podcast and I had to ask some more spiritually mature friends to see if this really was what it was. But I had actually experienced demonic oppression right before I started my podcast because I would just be going about my life getting ready for the podcast, doing all sorts of things, and I’d hear cha and I was like, what the heck? Like what? And it happened numerous times. It didn’t matter if my husband was home. It didn’t matter if he wasn’t home. It didn’t matter what I was doing with him and dad. It wasn’t anything. So I just hunged down and prayed and read the Bible way more. I was like, okay. No, but it’s definitely fortified my beliefs that I’m on the right track with trusting Jesus and trusting the Bible. And for some reason, the way I’m going about it now just feels so much more natural. It’s what I should be doing as opposed to back when I was in the thick of it with Jo’s witnesses.

Johnny Sanders (01:12:08):

Yeah. No, I think that’s great and completely makes sense why there will be some lasting effects from your time. And I would imagine some of those to a degree with some of the scars will be there forever. You’re human and we don’t just forget those times, but it’s exciting to see on your end of that faith being fortified, of being able to have those relationships to, Hey, I’m struggling right now and helping pointing you in the right direction. That’s incredible. And it definitely points back to the creator that we believe. Absolutely. When he saves us, he keeps us. We never leave his hand. Exactly. I think that’s so powerful and so beautiful that in those weak moments, he’s

Freda (01:13:04):

Not, it’s exactly. It’s just like the Apostle Paul said for when I’m weak, that that’s when God strengthens me and I’m the strongest. Yes,

Johnny Sanders (01:13:13):


Freda (01:13:14):

And that’s very much been my experience, even the way I got saved the second time around because a couple of years ago, well, I have a chronic illness, and I was supposed to go on my first business trip and I was so excited. I’m still relatively on the younger side of business things, and I was so amped, and then I called my doctor, I was experiencing some weird symptoms, and she’s like, you need to go to the hospital. And I’m like, but I have a flight at this time and I get to stay at the fancy C resort and the company’s paying for, I didn’t don’t want to miss out. And she’s like, Nope, you got to do it otherwise you’re going to faint and pass that on the airplane. And I was like, fine.

Thankfully, we very much had that relationship where I could be a little bit of a petulant child and she could be like, no, this is what you’re doing. I’m like, okay. She got her dream job, so she’s no longer my doctor, but she’s amazing. And so I went to the hospital and they made me stay, and they kept telling me, oh, you maybe can go home tomorrow. You maybe can go home tomorrow. You maybe can go home tomorrow, on and on for a week. And I was telling my boss, maybe I can go home tomorrow. I offered to zoom in. It was a whole thing. I was so excited. And they were like, no, you shouldn’t zoom in. You’re literally in the hospital. I’m like, okay, fine. And then they got mad at me for not zooming it, but anyways, and so while I was in there, I was sleeping, but I had woken myself up.

I was crying in my sleep. I was in so much pain. It was the worst. And then all of a sudden I see this, if you’re not a Christian, this is going to sound crazy, but if you truly believe, I’ll let you make your own mind up about what happened. I saw this bright light and I had never seen a light that bright before, and it didn’t seem to have a point of origin. And I was like, what the heck is happening? Especially I wasn’t supposed to be there. I wasn’t supposed to be in that hospital room because they just kept telling me, oh, maybe you can go on tomorrow. And so the light came closer and it said in this voice that I’ve never kind of heard a voice quite like this before. Would you like to pray together? And then when they, because the thing is with the way the light was, I couldn’t make out if it was a man, if it was a woman, if it was what it was.

But they asked if I would like to pray and I said, yes, I would like that very much. And so we prayed together and then I felt this peace that I had never felt before since I was maybe a very young child. I had finally felt that peace of God that is talked about in the scriptures. And when I was ready to look, I was experiencing it in that moment and I was going to look up and thank that person or the light or whatever it was. And by that time it had disappeared entirely. It had just finished, and I don’t know what it was, the jury’s still out, but I mean now I’m a Christian through and through more fortified and going strong than ever for the past few years.

Johnny Sanders (01:16:45):

I think that just continually where your focus is and where your faith is. If my faith is in, this is kind of a silly example, but around these parts, college football is a big deal. If my faith is in OU winning the football game and that’s it, then that’s my God, it’s not a very good God. If they lose, then I’m kind of in trouble. Your faith, your God could be Jehovah. We can make that, but we’ve kind of shown that that’s not a very good God. That’s the basis of why being in depth in scripture, knowing more about who God is, being in a community of believers that can help spur us on towards God, that it’s not about, it’s not what I have done here. It’s about who I love, who I’m serving. Absolutely. Awesome story. I think that there’s so many different wines and turns, and honestly, I’m kind of curious of this. Have you considered doing anything further with your story of a book or something of that nature?

Freda (01:18:11):

The thing is, we’re friends, so I’ll give you the fully transparent answer, not the first person who’ve asked me that. I definitely, because my story is wild from the day I was born, and it’s one of those things where every time I go and I try to sit down and I try to write it, I try to find that break in point. If you’ve ever really written anything and I can’t make it work, I feel like if I ever get to the point financially where I can hire a ghost writer and just have some really solid conversations with them and be like, this is what happened. Ask me anything. This is what happened. Ask me anything that I’d be able to with their help, turn something out that would be encouraging and interesting. And I mean, it’s me, so I don’t want to say fascinating. I’m not like I’m fascinating, but other people say it is. So it’s one of those things where it’s like if it lends itself, if a path becomes open to do something like that, awesome. I wouldn’t turn it on. I wouldn’t not consider it, but at this point I just try and go it alone has been a bit tricky.

Johnny Sanders (01:19:29):

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I’m sure I won’t be the last person to ask you. It just is a on outside looking in. Yeah, there’s just so much. And sharing your story on here was awesome, but you’re saying there’s more to it, and that book format could be a better way to hash some of those things out. Now I know it’s way easier for me to say, yeah, write a book, but to actually do that is a whole other venture. But hey,

Freda (01:20:01):

And the weird thing is I have written some stuff before and it feels like it’s easier to go with something I can heavily research as opposed to something I’ve heavily lived through. I mean, obviously I’ll go through the entire thing, it’s my life, but I don’t know. Does that make sense?

Johnny Sanders (01:20:20):

Yeah, no, it does. It does. And there’s definitely more obviously an extremely personal angle to this too, which it’s impossible for you to be completely unbiased writing your story. You’re going to be as biased as possible. You lived it, whereas you’re researching something. Yeah, you’re just reporting. You’re looking those things up. So no, I totally get what you’re saying with that.

Freda (01:20:44):

I feel like especially with research is more you can sink your teeth into versus having lived experience, especially if you’ve been through a lot of traumatic things. There’s missing pages. There’s kind of like, this is your life story. Here are some pages that your brain tore out on you without asking for permission.

Johnny Sanders (01:21:00):

Yeah, no, I could definitely see that. But yeah, maybe one day you’ll get that ghost writer or whatever, and I would be very interested in reading that should that day come.

Freda (01:21:12):

I’m also going to be doing a, I’m letting for my birthday month coming up, I’m letting two of my best friends, Marissa and Sarah take over my stream and they’re going to ask me a ton of questions and it should be a really good time. So me, if there’s any questions that you want them to ask me, and I’ll make sure I put that in. So it’s at the base about Twitter. So

Johnny Sanders (01:21:37):

Yeah, I think that’s great for anyone that’s curious to definitely send that her way. Now, one thing I’d like to end on with most of my guests on here is again, just some more of that active type of tone. You had some very active things that you have done throughout your life. What are some just real practical things that those listening and the audience could maybe do to make some type of impact in their life? Does anything come to mind?

Freda (01:22:07):

So there’s kind of three things that I would land on there. The first thing to make an active impact in your life is definitely to be in his word as often as you can because when you’re in his word as often as you can, it’s easier to have those words transcribed on your heart, and that way God and our love for God is able to shove through all of our actions and through all of the things that we do as we’re getting closer to him. The second thing I would recommend is using Public Square. It’s an app. I honestly recently downloaded it. I had used some of the information off of it on their website to be like, oh, this is a good brand. But really looking at when it comes to voting with your dollar, where are those dollars going to? It’s definitely a hot topic right now with the whole target thing and the fact that as a basic white girl can’t shop at Target anymore because of the horrible things they’re doing is a bit tricky, but it’s what my husband told me to do and it’s what I feel is right in my soul.

So that’s what we’re doing. So just looking at those kind of the boycotts that seem like they can make the most impact. You don’t have to boycott everything. It’s impossible. And some of them are easier than others because with Bud Light, you have a lot more, a more choices. You have whiskey, you have tequila, you have the option to just not drink at all sorts of different beers, but with Target, sometimes it feels a bit more inconvenient. But one of the things I like doing when it comes to that is looking at the brands that actually do support the change that you want to see in the world. And I’m fortunate where actually I made another new friend on Twitter, his name’s Rob, he owns his own coffee company. It’s called North Arrow Coffee, and they give 15% of all of their profits to pro-life causes, to pregnancy centers to help those women.

To know that, I feel like it’s easy to get back to North Florida and think that something’s your only option, especially considering my life journey, but the work that they do over there to help those pregnancy centers, to help those moms and those babies make sure that they get what they need is so crucial. And on top of it, they have a great product. My bestie has never, ever, ever gotten super hyped up about a decaf coffee because I mean, I’m kind of like the duck before decaf crowd myself, but she said it was the most flavorful brew she’s ever had. So if she feels that way about the decaf coffee, just imagine the regular coffee. It is absolutely delicious. So that’s north arrow, and if you use code free F R E D A, you can actually save 10% off yourself.

Johnny Sanders (01:25:12):

Hey, there we go. Not only some good things to think about. We have a super practical one that we even save you a little bit of money, so fantastic.

And I think your points there are really well taken, and I really like your approach there that hey, that target boycott that’s going on right now, that’s probably one of the bigger ones I’ve seen in some time and we actually had not been there for a little while, and I try not to be a holier than thou type of person, but we saw things about some chest binders that they had like a year or two ago, Nope. Out of there. And all that being said, yeah, you’re not going to be able to do any and everything and newsflash, most of the bigger companies, they probably hate your guts even if they don’t say it. That’s just kind of the reality.

Freda (01:26:08):


Johnny Sanders (01:26:09):

Finding not just boycotting things, but finding things that are actually doing good things. Public Square app is wonderful. It’s a great idea to get involved with some local businesses that have very similar values. North Arrow Coffee, hey, definitely encourage everyone. I’ll put that down in the description, check ’em out. That’s just one quick thing that if your dollar’s not doing perfect everywhere else, at least we’re doing something here.

Freda (01:26:42):


Johnny Sanders (01:26:44):

I think that that’s just a real practical good advice there.

Freda (01:26:48):

Plus I feel like sometimes when it comes to making a practical switch, it’s harder when you feel like you’re being inconvenienced versus when you feel like, oh, this is a change and I’m actually getting something much better in return. Like making your North Arrow coffee, saving yourself money from going to, for instance Starbucks, which actually funds abortion for their employees. You can start your day knowing that you’re making the right choice and maybe drinking some delicious pro-life coffee while you’re in the word before you go and have a great day.

Johnny Sanders (01:27:26):

There you go. I like that practicality. And I would almost kind of add to that. This goes to some of the, if you’ve done any Dave Ramsey, like financial peace stuff before, he talks about the debt snowball and what it means by that is you pay off one loan and then you pay off the next one and the next one and the next one and just kind of builds up, do the same thing when it comes to your finances and kind of voting with your dollar of start with something like that, real basic, and then see if there’s something else. Is there another brand, another thing that has a good alternative there? And just go that way. Don’t say, I’m not going to shop at any big store ever starting tomorrow. That’s probably not going to be true. You’re probably going to go against that, so start small and let it build up over time.

Freda (01:28:18):

It’s kind of exactly like that with New Year’s resolutions.

Yeah, I mean, I am so guilty of going to some smoothie company and getting kale and macho smoothies thinking this is going to be the time, but then you drink it and you’re like, this is so bad. And then you just throw it away and then you’re like, why did I do that? I mean, hopefully you’re smarter than me and don’t actually go for the kale macho first in the morning, especially if you don’t like maa. But making those small changes that might feel small might feel like, oh, is this worth doing? Because it doesn’t feel like I’m doing a ton, but you’re just replacing something that’s going to be much better for you in the long run. Even. I found this awesome new sunscreen. I’m super, super pal, and sunscreen is super important, but a lot of it leaves you feeling greasy and gross and stuff. And it’s called Nimi, N I M I skincare, and I’m actually in the works to be a brand ambassador for ’em because they are a conservative company that’s all about faith, all about femininity and all about freedom. And so once I get my code, I’ll give that to you so you can share it with your audience if you’d like.

Johnny Sanders (01:29:31):

Yeah, absolutely. No, I think that banding together with like-minded people, it’s just so incredibly important. And that might be something that I’ll kind of throw in there too, is find friends, find those foxhole buddies, kind of like you were talking about before. Don’t just focus on, oh, target did this and it’s terrible again, starting place. Yeah, you probably should be upset by that, but don’t just stay there. Find people that you can be there alongside with form relationships with and not just sitting in that anger that will eat you up and eventually you’re just going to be apathetic and hate everything and that’s just not worth it.

Freda (01:30:16):

The point is to get red pilled, not black pilled.

Johnny Sanders (01:30:19):

Exactly. That’s a great slogan. Yes, black pilled, you do nothing good for you. You’re just a bum at that point.

Freda (01:30:26):

Exactly. It’s far too nihilistic when you’re so numb from everything going on.

Johnny Sanders (01:30:30):

Yes. Well, where can the audience find you at

Freda (01:30:34):

So they can find me on finding the faith on Rumble and then I am the base babe everywhere else.

Johnny Sanders (01:30:41):

Perfect. Alright, well if you search the base babe, you’re going to find her, so encourage everyone to do that. It was great having on and kind of going through your story. And yeah, everybody, please check her out. Go get some North Arrow coffee code Frida, and you’ll get your good tip percent off there. So again, thanks for being on today.

Freda (01:31:02):

Of course. Thank you for having me, and I’m so glad that we were able to meet on Twitter and have this beautiful conversation come out of it.

Johnny Sanders (01:31:09):

Absolutely. All right, well everyone, thanks for listening. We’ll catch you on the next episode and we’ll just continue fighting for truth. You all take care.