SEO or Social Media for Business Growth? Advice from Brandon Leibowitz

Show Notes

In this dynamic episode of the Faithfully Engaged podcast, I sit down with digital marketing expert Brandon Leibowitz to explore the relevance of social media platforms for businesses. Please discover why having a website and a social media presence are crucial.

Brandon sheds light on the limitations and risks of relying solely on social media, urging businesses to promote themselves and avoid distractions. We discuss the importance of understanding your audience and their preferred platforms with valuable tips for effective marketing.

Brandon shares strategies for turning social media followers into website con, including content optimization and capturing email addresses. Suppose you’re ready to take control of your online presence and unleash it In this episode. In that case, you can Boost your website’s visibility and attract more organic traffic using SEO tactics.

Uncover the power of backlinks and how they can improve your website’s search engine ranking. Discover the relevance of social media platforms and how they can drive traffic to your website. Learn actionable strategies for optimizing your website’s conversion rate and turning followers into customers. Dive into the world of paid ads and gain insights on testing and optimizing them for maximum results.

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00:00:09 – Johnny Sanders
All right, well, everyone, welcome to another episode of faithfully Engaged. Today we’re going to talk a little bit about social media SEO. If you have no idea what SEO means, you’re going to learn all about it today from our guest, Brandon. So, Brandon, it’s great to have you on. Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?

00:00:30 – Brandon Leibowitz
Yeah, thanks for having me on. My name is Brandon Leibowitz, and I’ve been involved with digital marketing since 2007, helping people get more visibility and exposure online. Got my degree in business marketing, and after I graduated, the first job I got out of school was helping a company out with digital marketing. And I didn’t really know much about it. They said, don’t worry, we don’t know much either. We’re going to learn what to you and take you to classes and workshops and seminars. And this is back in 2007. And after doing that for a few months, just kind of realized this is probably the future. Everyone’s probably going to have a website in the future. And there’s lots of different ways to get traffic, such as like social media, running paid ads, doing email marketing, doing search engine optimization, but really just focused more on the SEO side of things because it’s a way to get free traffic. And I always thought, why spend money on paid ads if you could get up there for free? And over the years, I’ve worked at different advertising agencies as a director of SEO, but also realized that I could work and pick up, like build a freelance business up by finding clients that aren’t a conflict of interest. So when I was working at these agencies, most of the clients are like ecommerce businesses. So I was able to go to a local restaurant or doctor or a lawyer or whatever it may be that’s a local business and essentially offer them my services to see if they need help with SEO. And built that up by working before work, after work on my lunch breaks on my own company, and built that up to where I was able to eventually quit my job and focus solely on this and really been doing that ever since, just helping people tap into that free traffic from Google.

00:01:57 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah. Well, it’s great to have you on. And let’s start with just that, SEO. You’ve already mentioned what that is, but for somebody that’s listening, like, what on earth is SEO? What’s kind of that over 10,000 foot overview, basic explanation of what SEO even is.

00:02:20 – Brandon Leibowitz
So SEO is search engine optimization, which means optimizing websites for search engines. So when you’re searching on Google, which Google kind of runs the show, there’s ads at the top. Those are all paid ads. Right below the ads are the organic, the free listings, and SEO is all about getting you in those free listings. There’s ten spots on that first page of Google that list out website. So we’re trying to get your website listed on that first page of Google so you could get that free traffic without having to spend money on paid ads. So it’s really just trying to tap into that free Google traffic gotcha.

00:02:53 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, and like you mentioned, there free Google traffic. You said free is better than paid in pretty much every way. So you’re obviously an expert at this. You’ve been doing this for quite some time. Let’s start back in that 2007 time frame. What was different back then? How did you get your feet wet and learn more about it? That was way before my days of having a website and everything. So what was that like, kind of pioneering back in those oh, it was.

00:03:27 – Brandon Leibowitz
A lot easier because there’s less competition. So the more competition, the tougher it becomes. Back then, like you said, you didn’t have a website. Most people didn’t have websites. Nowadays it’s a little too easy to build a website on WordPress or Shopify or Wix or Squarespace, where anyone could build a website, throw it up in a few hours and start becoming a competitor. So it’s a lot more tougher nowadays. Back then it was much easier and for the most part, everything is still similar to what Google’s looking at in the search engine, the algorithms. It’s just changed a little bit because people found loopholes and ways to kind of gain the system, which search engines say, no, we don’t want you to find these loopholes, we don’t want you to gain the system and find these shortcuts, we want you to work to build it up. So essentially, all the algorithm updates are really just trying to stop spam, like cleaning up spam. And people have figured, found loopholes and game the system. The only major updates that really have a big impact are like, back in 2013, Google said, mobile is taking over, and if your website is not mobile friendly, we’re not going to show you on mobile devices, which nowadays accounts for over half the traffic to any website. Or if your website loads slowly, we’re not going to like that. So every once in a while they’ll let you know what they’re doing, but most of the time they don’t really tell you what they’re doing. They kind of keep it secret. But as long as you’re not spamming, then you don’t really have to worry about any of those updates because that’s really what they’re doing, is trying to just clean up the results and provide the best user experience. Because if someone searches on Google goes to your website and then it loads slowly or it doesn’t look good on mobile, that’s a bad user experience and you’re probably going to hit that back button. And Google doesn’t want you to do that. They want you to find what you’re looking for as quickly and as easily as possible. So the easier you make it for people to find what they’re looking for on your website, the more Google is going to reward you with more traffic and higher rankings in the search results.

00:05:13 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, that sounds fairly basic. Yeah, I get this website built up. It needs to be relevant. It goes on the Google search engine. It needs to load fast. Okay, fine. That won’t take me very long. That’ll just take me 10 seconds and I master it, right? Of course not. There’s more that goes into that. So why can it be a little besides just the competition, like you said? Why might it be a little intimidating for people to try to tackle SEO issues all on their own?

00:05:51 – Brandon Leibowitz
Well, Google doesn’t really care what you put on the website. So all that stuff like making changes to your website, building a website, putting keywords on it doesn’t do anything because it’s too easy. Google knows that anyone can build a website. That doesn’t mean that you’re real, legitimate, credible trustworthy. Because, again, Google doesn’t want to rank a website and then find out that you’re selling, like, shoes online, and then you’re selling fake Nikes or something like that, or you’re just stealing people’s credit card information. So they want you to build up trust. And the way to build trust is by getting what are called backlinks, getting other websites to talk about you. The more websites that talk about you that are related to what you’re doing, the more trust Google is going to give to you. And then they look at those keywords on your website. But it doesn’t work the other way around. Without building backlinks, it’s pretty much impossible to rank on Google. And what is a backlink? A backlink is a clickable link from another website that points to yours. So let’s say you’re reading an article on In there, it says Brandon Leibowitz, and you click on it and it goes to my website. I’d be getting a backlink from So the more websites that talk about you, it’s kind of like a popularity contest, the more trustworthy Google sees you as. But, yeah, there’s so many other variables. That’s why it’s tough, because SEO is like a puzzle. There’s a lot of pieces to this puzzle. Some are bigger than others, like content on your website. The backlinks are two really big pieces of that puzzle. But there’s so many little tiny things that have those impacts that it gets a little tricky with Google. They don’t make it the easiest. They make it seem straightforward and easy. But there’s so many little nuances and technical details that it gets a little tricky.

00:07:26 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, kind of sticking on the topic of backlinks, that’s something if anybody saw the title to this episode and look up SEO, what’s SEO and backlinks inevitably is going to be something that pops up when you’re looking at SEO. So that makes sense of somebody is backlinking me. So that’s communicating to Google. Okay, this website probably is something that’s trustworthy so let’s say I’m a new business owner. I’m trying to get my website out there to all sorts of different people. How do I get those backlinks? How do I get people to communicate back to me and to show Google that I’m really legitimate?

00:08:12 – Brandon Leibowitz
Well, there’s a lot of different ways to build backlinks. The best way is look at your competition, spying your competitors using paid tools. You have to pay for these tools. They’re about like $100 a month or so. So just pick one of them. Like, Ahrefs is pretty popular or Maz or somerush. I just pick one. Use that tool and then go into Google, search for your keywords and make a list of all the websites that appear. Because these are your competitors, even though they might not be your competitor offline if they rank on that first page of Google for your keywords, they are your competitor online. Like, let’s say you’re a restaurant and you search on Google and you see that Yelp appears. You’re like, Yelp is not my competitor. But if they’re ranking for your keywords, technically they are. You might have 20 other restaurants in your city, but if none of them rank on that first page of Google, then they’re not really your competitors online offline they’re your competitors. But online got to figure out who your competition is, who ranks for your keywords, and then make a list of all those websites and then throw them into those tools and you can see all of their backlinks. And if they’re on that first page of Google, google’s definitely rewarding them because of those backlinks. So if you could look at those backlinks and find out which ones are relevant and authoritative and reach out to those sites to see if they potentially link out to you, because if they’re linking to your competitor, they’d probably link to you. Just got to get creative and figure out what did your competition do? Did they write an article? Did they get an interview? Did they do a blog post? Are they a local business? Are they on Guelp? Are they on Google Maps? Are they on Apple Maps? Are they on the BBB? Did they join like a chamber of Commerce? Do they sponsor a trade show and got a backlink? And you pretty much reverse engineer their entire strategy and see how they’ve gotten that traction, what they’ve been doing. And then you try to replicate that as much as possible. You’re not going to be able to replicate everything because some of those websites can be 1020 years old that you’re not able to reach out to these sites, but you want to try to find as many sites that are related to what you’re doing and authoritative. You don’t want to just go for any website. You want to make sure that they’re niche related and they have some authority to it. Because if you build the wrong type of backlinks, instead of ranking higher, you’re going to actually drop down, which we don’t want that to happen. We want you to rank higher. We don’t want you to fall down those results.

00:10:23 – Johnny Sanders
Do you have some more examples of on the bad network or, sorry, the bad backlink side of things? What are some examples of a bad backlink?

00:10:33 – Brandon Leibowitz
So to like if you’re, let’s say, selling shoes online and you’re getting a backlink from a pharmaceutical company or a gambling company or anything that doesn’t really align, that would be a bad backlink. Or if you’re based in the United States and backlinks from other countries or other languages, that’s also a negative signal to Google. So it all comes down to just thinking like, all right, if I’m selling shoes in the United States, what type of websites would link out to someone selling shoes? Probably like other websites. Well, depending on what type of footwear, if you’re selling like sports shoes, then maybe like sporting websites or it’s all about just understanding what’s related to what you’re doing. Maybe other manufacturers, designers, stuff like that, that’s going to be related to what you’re doing. So it’s all about relevancy that’s. The big part is finding sites that are related to what you’re doing. Not just finding any random website, but finding sites that are at least somewhat related to what you’re doing. The more related, the better. But it doesn’t have to be exactly what you’re doing. Like, I’m an SEO company. Probably not going to get other SEO companies to link out to me because we’re all somewhat competitors. But if I could find websites related to marketing, even traditional marketing, like TV, print, radio, it doesn’t have to be digital marketing or SEO, anything somewhat related to what you’re doing, that’s what Google wants to see.

00:11:50 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah. So it’s probably not the best ideas just to say any and everybody put my website on your website, but if it’s in the ballpark, we definitely want that because that’s telling Google that, yeah, I’m selling shoes and these warehouses or whatever are backlinking me. Probably a legitimate website there. So that makes sense. Now I’m going to kind of rail on my hometown for a little bit. So I’m in somewhat rural Oklahoma, and not that nobody in town has heard of SEO and things of that nature, but it’s not necessarily the talk of the town. It’s usually you go to that restaurant because so and so owns it from so and so. It’s a lot of word of mouth, which that obviously still matters. But their big thing, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve tried to Google a restaurant or something in my town and they don’t have a website. So I go to their social media page. I would imagine you would agree having some form of social media presence isn’t a bad thing. But what would you say to somebody that says, well, why do I need a website because I have a facebook. Every business in my town has Facebook, but they may not have a website. Why might that be an issue? If they already have a Facebook, why should they just go ahead and get a website too?

00:13:22 – Brandon Leibowitz
Well, if they have a Facebook page and you go on their Facebook page, there’s ads that promote other businesses there. And if you have a website, you’re not going to promote other companies, you’re going to promote yourself. You don’t want people going to your website and then be like, oh look at all these ads, I’m going to click on these ads and then they forget about your service and maybe you made $5 from that ad but could have made whatever amount by having that person actually become a client and having them repeat business. So it’s just really understand that Facebook, it’s promoting other companies and it’s not yours. They could take you down anytime and you just lost everything. Or Instagram or any of these platforms could take you down for any like you don’t have any control, that’s not yours. You’re just renting space off these platforms. And that’s the biggest issue is you’re just renting space. Also engagement is really low or reach is really low, especially on like Facebook. So if you’ve worked at built up that Facebook like ten years ago and you have like 1000 likes on your Facebook page and you post ten years ago, all thousand people would see what you post. Nowadays about 5% of that audience will ever see what you post. So five out of 100 people will see what you’re posting. So if you have 1000 likes, 50 people will see what you’re posting, which is good, but it’s not 1000 that you work to build and build and build. And if you want to show it to those other 950 people, there’s a little button on Facebook and Instagram that says boost this post up to show it to the rest of your audience, which essentially means you’re paying to play. These are all paid platforms nowadays. Social media used to be free, but mean it’s still free. But if you want that exposure and the play, you have to spend money on paid ads. So that’s one thing is you’re not going to be able to reach that audience. And also you just have to understand who is your audience. For restaurants, I don’t know how many people are going on Instagram to look for a restaurant. I mean some people do, but most people are probably going to go on like Yelp or Google to find a restaurant and then maybe check them out on social. It’s like social proof to make sure they’re real legitimate, have reviews they’re trustworthy. But in general, most people are probably going to go on Google first and then check you out on social. But you still should definitely have that presence on social media. It’s just understanding who your audience is and where are they for sports and news, then you definitely need to be on social media. Like anything sports related, news, music. Social is where you’re going to get your traction because people really aren’t going on Google looking for new music. Some people might again, but majority of people are probably going to go on Social or Spotify. So it’s all about just knowing where your audience is and how to be in front of them at the right moments, at the right times. And it’s good to have a presence everywhere, but you don’t want to put your all your eggs in one basket. And you also don’t want to rely on social because if you just focused on Facebook, only now you’re like, I should have probably focused on Instagram, or now I need to focus on TikTok and have to start all over again and rebuild that audience. And it’s not that easy getting an audience from Instagram to TikTok or to Twitter or vice versa. Even though they know who you are, it’s really, really tough to get them to cross platform, change over and follow you on a new platform. So that’s why having your website see yours, you have full control. You put out what you want, no one’s ever going to take you down. I mean, Google could drop you down in rankings, but you still own that website that’s yours forever. And you promote yourself. You don’t promote other companies. And you get that reach and visibility and it’s just a way to brand yourself and get yourself some real visibility and exposure.

00:16:33 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, absolutely. And that’s something in my short time frame for this podcast, have my own podcast website, but also more importantly for my counseling practice, have really seen that importance there. That website is mine, and that’s fundamentally different than social media. My page is kind of mine, sort of, but not really. That’s Facebook’s. So I think that is a key difference there. On the topic of social media, have you found particular types of social media that are more important than others? Are there some that you should like, I really need to make sure I have a Facebook or really need to make sure I have an Instagram. Does it really matter what kind of social media presence you have?

00:17:26 – Brandon Leibowitz
It really comes down to your audience. Who is your audience and where are they? That’s what matters. You don’t need to be everywhere. I mean, it’s good to claim your username on all those platforms so no one else could take it. But in general, being active, do you really need to be active all the time? Not necessarily. I mean, some platforms maybe, but it just depends on your audience. Where are they, who are they, and how do I engage with them. And for myself. I do SEO. Not many people are really going to go on Instagram looking for an SEO company, so I’ll post every once in a while, but sound like I’m going all in, whereas on YouTube, I could post a lot more people are looking for SEO related content on YouTube. So just trying to really understand who and where your audience is going and how to be in front of them when they’re actually on those.

00:18:09 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, yeah. So it really does go into that awareness of what is my business and where are these customer rumors at? And I’ll just kind of throw my own two cent in there too. I’ve been kind of doing some of my own social media presence and for me, maybe it’s just the old soul in me. I don’t really understand TikTok that much. I’m not really a short form content kind of guy. That’s why I have a longer form podcast. I’m just not going to go there. And other people can, people can be successful there. But I know myself as kind of what I’m looking for too, and some of my audience members. So it really is a lot of those personal preferences there and your customer preferences too, on kind of the topic of social media. And just even on your site, on your website. It’s one thing to have people to go to your social media or to go to your website, but it’s another for them to actually follow through, to actually get that sale in the end. So how do we go from just attracting people? Google sends us in, that’s great, but how do we get to the finish line? How do we turn all those followers into sales?

00:19:31 – Brandon Leibowitz
That is the tough part. It’s not easy. And that’s where you just got to figure out offering. Well, especially with social media, it’s tough to get people off of social media. Most social media locks you in there, they don’t want you to leave. So you don’t really get especially like Instagram, you get like a bio link and maybe you do like a swipe up story with a link. But other than that, there’s not many ways for people to go to your website. So having a good call to action in your bio, offering something of value for free, it’s going to incentivize people to go to your website. But even then, once they go to your website, that doesn’t mean anything either. Visitors are just visitors. How do you get people to convert on your website? And that’s where you got to really think about what’s called conversion rate optimization is, how do I optimize my website to maximize the value of every visitor, which for some reason not many people really talk about too much. It’s like I’ll just build a website and make it look nice and pretty. But you don’t want a pretty website. You want a website that converts that traffic into sales, leads phone calls, whatever that conversion goal is. And that’s where you have to understand that whatever someone sees on the screen, that’s called above the fold. Most people don’t scroll down on the website. So if you don’t have a value proposition at the top, letting people know what’s in it for me, having your call to action at the top. Like if your ecommerce website just have the add to cart right there button right now above the fold where they don’t have to scroll down. Or if you’re a service based business, you could have like a form right there or your phone number or your email address, but you got to have some call to action, above the fold value proposition. Then maybe like a couple of bullet points or a video or something that’s easy to digest quickly because attention spans are just so short nowadays that if you have a long block of text, no one’s going to want to read that. So shorter kind of little bullet points, lower down on the page, you could have all these details and go deeper into it. But essentially on the top, you got to keep it clean, easy to navigate, more minimal, just really the things that need to be there. And again, kind of take a step back. If you’re looking for your product or service, what would you want to see on this page? What’s going to keep you engaged that you don’t hit that back button and don’t leave that website? Maybe offering something for free that we could capture people’s email addresses as well. Having like a pop up. Like if you’re ecommerce, you could give a discount. Like anyone that’s a first time customer gets 10% off. Just give me your email address. If you’re a service based business, it’s a little tougher. You got to create something like a class or ebook or something that you offer for free. Collect those email addresses and then start content marketing through email. Just offer value. Don’t promote yourself. Just offer value and establish yourself as a subject matter expert. Or if you’re selling products, then establish yourself as an expert in that product. But whatever it is, you just got to offer value and offer tips. And really that’s going to be the best way to get someone to trust you to want to buy, because you got to get Google to trust you to rank you in the search results. Once people get to your website, you got to get people to trust you. So it’s twofold, you got to get search engines and people to trust you. And getting people to trust you is probably harder than getting Google to trust you because Google’s just a robot and there’s kind of a formula, but people are people and everyone’s unique. And how do you really relate and get someone to want to learn more about your product or service? It’s not the easiest.

00:22:38 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, no, that’s a really good point. And something that I think is very important that you keep saying is value. That’s something that I find important just in my relationship with others and how I want to treat people not just in a business, but in day to day conversations is, am I bringing them value? Am I bringing my wife value in the way that I’m treating her? Now, your customers to your website, or you may not know them personally, but if you’re just trying to take their money and that’s my only goal, like, of course we want to get their business, but we’re not trying to rob them. We’re trying to give them something that’s that’s worth their time. And putting your best foot forward there kind of going back to the how would you like to be treated? How would you like to engage on a website? Yeah, I think that really goes down to it to not just see people as that robot, like the Google search engine, but see them as people. And even if you don’t interact with them personally, still treating them as people and treating them as somebody that’s valued and giving them a good product or good service instead of just give me all your money right now, that usually doesn’t work very well on that website.

00:23:58 – Brandon Leibowitz
No, people could see through it pretty quickly. So, yeah, you got to offer value and be authentic and not just be in it for that quick buck.

00:24:06 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, great. Now, let’s say I’m a business owner, and okay, I hear all this SEO stuff, that’s great, but I don’t have time to do all these backlinks and build that all up. I need this right now. And they’re going to look into that. Pay to play to do Google Ads or social media ads. Where do you even start with that? Of, I want to run ads? They might be overwhelmed. How do you even manage an ad campaign like that for your website or social media?

00:24:46 – Brandon Leibowitz
Well, that’s again, knowing who your audience is and where they are, because there’s so many different ads that you run that most people want to do social media ads, but they’re cheaper for a reason, because it’s lower quality traffic. You’re just interrupting people based off interest and topics. But they’re not searching. Someone’s searching on Google. They’re searching. They’re looking actively. They have that buyer intent behind it. So it’d be a little bit more expensive to run Google Ads, but that’s where you’re probably going to get a better return on your investment. And it’s just really testing, throwing everything against the wall, seeing what sticks, what resonates, and pushing more money to that. Pull money away from what’s not working. Because with Google Ads, there’s lots of different ads you can run. With Google, you can do search ads where it’s searching on Google. You see those ads at the top of Google. You could do banner ads, you do Gmail ads, you could do YouTube ads, you could do discovery ads. There’s so many different ads that Google has that it’s all about conscious testing and seeing what works and pushing more money to that, scaling back what’s. Not working and just testing and optimizing. That’s the biggest thing with the ads is don’t just set it and forget it. Set them up, test them out, see what works. Push more money into that. Pull money away from what’s not working. Like maybe females 40 to 45 are clicking but they’re not converting. Cut them out. Maybe males 20 to 25 are clicking and they’re actually becoming a client. Push more money to that. So it’s all about testing and testing and testing. That’s the biggest thing with the paid ads. Well just in general with everything with Digital is testing. But especially with the paid ads because you’re paying every time someone clicks. Well, depending on how you pay, there’s other ways where you pay per impression. So anytime that 1000 people see your ad you might spend $10. So there’s different ways but you want to maximize that value because you don’t want to just be wasting that money. Because the ads, they get quite expensive, they work. If you’re making a positive return on ad spend as they keep running them, something wrong with those ads. But just be aware that they do cost money and they can get a little pricey. So that’s why you want to try out all these different platforms because some will be less expensive than others. Google search ads, very, very expensive. YouTube ads, pretty cheap because not many people create the video. People don’t want to create a video. It’s a little bit more time invested. So less people are bidding on those video ads. It’s going to be much cheaper. Everyone has a website, they can just throw the website up saying I want to rank for this search term. So those become much more expensive. But the ones that require a little bit more work, like banner ads a little bit cheaper. YouTube ads, much cheaper and those are made much better. I feel like YouTube puts a face behind the company, builds trust up and it really helps out a lot.

00:27:16 – Johnny Sanders
That’s a really interesting piece there. I hadn’t even really thought about that myself. It makes sense. It’s kind of that supply and demand type of type of thinking there. It’s very easy to like you said, every time that I go on Google you see those top ads like that. We see it all the time and when you’re on YouTube you see it too, but you just don’t think of it quite in the same way. And it does seem to be more of a production quality and things like that. A little bit of a harder entry there. So if you put in the work I hadn’t considered of the cost with that, but sounds like that could be a really good value if you’re willing to put in that work to put the video in for that.

00:28:02 – Brandon Leibowitz
Especially because YouTube also gives you 30 seconds free ad space. So someone watches your video ad for 30 seconds or 29 seconds then skips it. You don’t pay a penny after 30 seconds, then you pay like ten cents or twenty cents of you. So it’s much, much cheaper. And if they skipped it, if they skip it after 5 seconds, they still heard you talk for 5 seconds. So you still got a little bit of your message in there. Not the full message, but at least they heard you, they saw you. So implants that scene and it’s pretty much like free ad space because YouTube knows that not many people make those videos. So they want to kind of incentivize you to make these YouTube videos because they are really powerful. It’s just that barrier to entry. But nowadays the cell phones, you just grab your phone and do a video right there. You don’t have to have the whole production and it’s actually more authentic and people like that more than the whole production and commercial style type of video.

00:28:53 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah. So those of you listening if like, man, I really have this great idea, I have this great project, but this is so expensive. That might be something to think about of going down that more video route could be some decent bang for your buck. On this advertising side of things, I’m sure it kind of depends on the company and where you’re at, but have you found kind of a sweet spot over how much paid advertising as opposed to how much SEO? Like should I focus more effort solely on SEO? Like half and half SEO and ad space? Do you really have a good answer for that?

00:29:36 – Brandon Leibowitz
It’s different for every business depending on where you are. Like if you’re startup brand new website SEO is going to take months and months and months. So if you want immediate traction, paid ads might be a good start. Once you start getting that Google rank or the SEO starts kicking in, then maybe you could scale back a little bit off the paid ads. But if you’re making a positive return on ad spend, I would say there’s no reason to turn them off. As long as you’re making more than you’re putting in, then don’t necessarily need to turn them off. But if you’re losing money, then you definitely want to cut them out because we don’t want to be bleeding money to any of these platforms. So as long as you’re making a positive return, I would keep them going. But the main ads I really do like that I would always keep going are retargeting. So anyone that goes to your website doesn’t make a purchase. Like if you go on Amazon and you don’t make that purchase, you see those ads that follow you around. You can do the same thing to your website. Anyone that goes to your website doesn’t do a specific action, like doesn’t fill out a form, doesn’t make a purchase, whatever it is. You could set up different ad campaigns and these are all warm leads warm traffic that have been to your website but didn’t convert. And that was your chance to try to get them to convert. And that’s going to be much cheaper than doing a cold outreach campaign where you’re just targeting random people. These are all people have been to your website. Something distracted them. Maybe it loaded slowly. Maybe it didn’t look good on mobile or whatever it may be, but they were there. Now you just got to keep yourself top of mind. And those are really cheap and really effective.

00:30:57 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah. Again, kind of that value word coming back in there. Even on your end of things. You want to bring value to the customer, but you also want to get value out of you’re, the customer there for your ad. You want to get value on that end. And that seems to be a very attractive way to try to get those people that they already clicked. So let’s try to get them to click back again.

00:31:22 – Brandon Leibowitz
Yeah, they were that close. Let’s keep yourself top of mind and it’s going to be much easier to get someone like that versus a cold outreach campaign where you’re just targeting people. I’ve never heard of you.

00:31:32 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah, awesome. Just another kind of practical type of question. I know this is one I’ve thought of myself on social media, and I know it kind of depends on, again, what social media you’re doing, but is there a better time of day to post things? Like, should I do it in the morning and afternoon? Does it really matter?

00:31:57 – Brandon Leibowitz
That one is also same thing. It depends on your business. Like, let’s say you’re a concert venue. You’re going to be like, all right, we got to post Friday evening, Saturday, Sunday, versus if you’re selling baby diapers, you’ll be like, all right, when can I reach parents? When they have some free time, maybe early in the morning or maybe after they drop their kids off at school or whatever it may be. So you got to kind of take a step back and think, like, if you were your client or looking for your product or service, what times of the day would you be searching? Or do you have free time to actually look for it? I mean, in general, most people say post like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday from like 09:00 A.m. To 11:00 A.m.. But that’s what I used to think. But now I realize it’s not a one size fits all. It really depends on your business. If you’re doing sports, you could post 20 times a day. No one’s going to be mad. Versus if I post about SEO 20 times a day, people are going to be like, what is going on? This is too much SEO. So it’s all about really just understanding your audience. And I would look at your competition, see what your competitors are doing, what platforms are they active on, how often do they post, what time of the day do they post? What time of the week do they post? Because with digital, pretty much everything is out there. There’s nothing that’s really hidden. If you look in the right places, you could see what your competitors are doing and get ideas based off them. Like, maybe they’re posting ten times a day, but on Facebook, but nobody’s liking and engaging. Then maybe Facebook isn’t the best platform, or maybe they’re just doing Facebook wrong. But if you see they’re posting on Instagram all the time and they’re getting a ton of engagement, all these likes, all these comments, then you’re like, maybe I should be on Instagram. So it’s all about just kind of getting ideas, basing them off your competitors, and just trying to, again, test. Don’t just copy what they’re doing, but copy it and then test and see, does this work? If it does, great. If not, try something else and keep testing and testing until you find that sweet spot. But usually the analytics will tell you too. And a lot of these platforms, or not all them, but some of them will show you, like, time of day that your audience is active. So you could use that. But again, you got to think, just because they’re active, does that mean they’re looking for my product or service? You got to think, like, when do they actually have free time? That if they’re a new parent, they’re not going to have much time. Maybe in the afternoon or when their kids asleep, they could have some time to search for products about children and babies. But if you’re like a venue for music and concerts, then all right, weekends are probably where I’m going to be posting all the time to keep people active because now it’s relaxation time. Let’s give them content about how they can enjoy their free time.

00:34:20 – Johnny Sanders
Yeah. And again, some common themes keep popping up here of I like that there’s kind of that creativity part there that, hey, if something’s not working, then go try something else. But there’s also that analytic part. Let’s look at the numbers. What is working here? What was an aspect of that post that worked great? What didn’t work? Well, it’s just kind of going back to the drawing board there, as opposed to just, this is the one way you have to do it, and I’m going to follow this formula every single time. If it works, great. But if it’s not working, then try something new. Nothing too extreme about that. That’s kind of just life in general. And I think that’s what I enjoy about this conversation is while these topics like, yeah, there’s a lot of moving pieces, and I don’t think anybody understands every single aspect of SEO, but that barrier to entry there isn’t quite as high as some people might think. Oftentimes it’s those fears that really keep us from going. So I think you’ve given us a lot of really good ways to get your feet wet, get started and go create. Go make new things. Go make great content out there. But sometimes we’re our worst enemy and just think, oh, I can’t do it. I’m not good enough. And then we just don’t make anything. And that’s sad. We should go out and try to make new great things.

00:35:56 – Brandon Leibowitz
Yeah, definitely. Just play around and don’t be scared. Don’t get overwhelmed. I mean, it’s a lot, but if you piece by piece, it’s not as overwhelming, and over time, you’ll get that traction. But just don’t get overwhelmed or get scared and just jump in there and play around and test and test and test. And if you break something, it’s fine. You could just go back and fix it. And it’s not the end of the world. It’s not like you can’t change it. You can’t revert those changes. Everything is pretty flexible with the digital, so don’t get overwhelmed.

00:36:25 – Johnny Sanders
Great. Well, I’m imagining there are people listening to this episode that want to catch up with you and follow you, and maybe they’re interested even in some of your services and getting their own website up and going. So where can the audience find you?

00:36:42 – Brandon Leibowitz
So anyone that wants to learn more actually create a special gift for them. If they go to my website at SEO, that’s gift, and they find my contact information and a bunch of classes I’ve done over the years, I’ve thrown up for free. So they could see step by step how to do a lot of stuff that we talked about. And also, if they want to book some time on my calendar for a free website analysis, I’m happy to check out their website from an SEO point of view, and they could book some time on my calendar there for free as well.

00:37:13 – Johnny Sanders
Wonderful. Well, yeah, I would encourage all of you. If you have a website or you’re thinking about making a website for your business services or whatever, go check them out. And yeah, I really appreciate your conversation on this topic. That’s not very well understood by a lot of people, but I really appreciate your time today.

00:37:32 – Brandon Leibowitz
Thanks for having me on today.

00:37:34 – Johnny Sanders
All right, well, thank you for everyone that were listening to this great conversation today. I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week, and let’s just go continue fighting for truth. Thank you.